US deaths in WW2

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Arensburger
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#16

Post by Arensburger » 12 Jan 2008, 22:52

R Leonard wrote:Unknown Theater - 146
What about persons like Henry Antheil, and this number 146? Was he listed there?
Henry W. Antheil, Jr., a clerk at the U.S. Legation in Helsinki, killed on June 14, 1940 while serving as a diplomatic courier when the Finnish passenger plane Kaleva was shot down over the Gulf of Finland near Tallinn, Estonia.
http://www.state.gov/p/us/rm/2007/84304.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/fineka03.htm
http://www.estemb.org/press/us_media/aid-834
http://estonia.usembassy.gov/fsj2007.pdf
http://estonia.usembassy.gov/henryantheil.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleva_(airplane)

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thorwald77
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#17

Post by thorwald77 » 12 Jan 2008, 23:42

Arensburger wrote:
R Leonard wrote:Unknown Theater - 146
What about persons like Henry Antheil, and this number 146? Was he listed there?
Henry W. Antheil, Jr., a clerk at the U.S. Legation in Helsinki, killed on June 14, 1940 while serving as a diplomatic courier when the Finnish passenger plane Kaleva was shot down over the Gulf of Finland near Tallinn, Estonia.
http://www.state.gov/p/us/rm/2007/84304.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/fineka03.htm
http://www.estemb.org/press/us_media/aid-834
http://estonia.usembassy.gov/fsj2007.pdf
http://estonia.usembassy.gov/henryantheil.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleva_(airplane)
The statistics include the Army, Navy, Marine Corps and Coast Guard from 1 Dec 1941 until 31 Dec 1946 including 126 Navy killed in U boat attacks in 1941 befor Pearl Harbor. The Merchant Marine dead includes US as well as foriegn flaged ships, the period covered is not stated on the USMM website. Civilian deaths including Henry W. Antheil jr. are not included in the above mentioned statistics.


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thorwald77
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#18

Post by thorwald77 » 12 Jan 2008, 23:44

Arensburger wrote:
R Leonard wrote:Unknown Theater - 146
What about persons like Henry Antheil, and this number 146? Was he listed there?
Henry W. Antheil, Jr., a clerk at the U.S. Legation in Helsinki, killed on June 14, 1940 while serving as a diplomatic courier when the Finnish passenger plane Kaleva was shot down over the Gulf of Finland near Tallinn, Estonia.
http://www.state.gov/p/us/rm/2007/84304.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/fineka03.htm
http://www.estemb.org/press/us_media/aid-834
http://estonia.usembassy.gov/fsj2007.pdf
http://estonia.usembassy.gov/henryantheil.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleva_(airplane)
How many US civilians were killed in World War Two? I don't know.

Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: US deaths in WW2

#19

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 22 Jun 2008, 21:17

You must add also Armed Guard battle deaths - 2193 KIA and 1127 WIA.

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thorwald77
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Re: US deaths in WW2

#20

Post by thorwald77 » 23 Jun 2008, 12:06

The Naval Armed Guard is included with the US Navy casualty statistics.

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The_Enigma
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Re: US deaths in WW2

#21

Post by The_Enigma » 24 Jun 2008, 16:02

Overall, US Army Deaths, including USAAF, by theater, and includes KIA, DOW, POW-KIA, POW-DOW, POW-NBD, MIA-DD, and MIA-NBD:

Atlantic Area Theaters:
Africa-Middle East – 1,031
Caribbean & South Atlantic - 38
European – 135,576
Mediterranean – 40,455
TOTAL – 177,100
Figure i have for US involement in North Africa is from November 12th 1942 - May 13 1943 is:

2,715 killed
8,978 wounded
6,528 missing

These figures are quoted in Atkinsons 'An Army at Dawn' and are also quoted in the British Official History Volume IV of the Med and Middle East series by Playfair (i know, not the premier source for American losses but why would they nearly treble American deaths?).

Jon G.
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Re: US deaths in WW2

#22

Post by Jon G. » 24 Jun 2008, 16:27

For casualties in North Africa [admittedly for all combatants], also see this thread:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=92871

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R Leonard
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Re: US deaths in WW2

#23

Post by R Leonard » 24 Jun 2008, 22:01

The_Enigma wrote:
Overall, US Army Deaths, including USAAF, by theater, and includes KIA, DOW, POW-KIA, POW-DOW, POW-NBD, MIA-DD, and MIA-NBD:

Atlantic Area Theaters:
Africa-Middle East – 1,031
Caribbean & South Atlantic - 38
European – 135,576
Mediterranean – 40,455
TOTAL – 177,100
Figure i have for US involement in North Africa is from November 12th 1942 - May 13 1943 is:

2,715 killed
8,978 wounded
6,528 missing

These figures are quoted in Atkinsons 'An Army at Dawn' and are also quoted in the British Official History Volume IV of the Med and Middle East series by Playfair (i know, not the premier source for American losses but why would they nearly treble American deaths?).
From Army Battle Casualties and Nonbattle Deaths In World War II - Final Report, 7 December 1941 - 31 December 1946. Department of the Army, Office of the Adjutant General, 1 June 1953:

From page 8

For the Africa-Middle East Theater:

Total battle casualties: 3,959
This is derived from:
Killed in action: 930 plus the
Wounded or injured in action: 536 plus the
Captured and interned: 1590 plus the
Missing in action: 903
Equals 3,959

Total battle deaths: 1,031
This is derived from:
Killed in action: 930 plus the
Died of wounds or injuries sustained in action: 17 plus the
POW killed in action: 2 plus the
POW died of other causes: 1 plus the
MIA declared dead: 81
Equals 1,031

Non-Death Casualties: 2928
This is derived from:
Wounded Evacuated to US for discharge or return to duty: 117 plus the
Wounded returned to duty in theater: 402 plus the
POW returned to military control: 1,587 plus the
MIA returned to duty: 822
Equals 2,928

And 2,928 plus 1,031 equals 3959

Pages 28 and 29 of this report will give you a month by month accounting

Pages 50 and 51 will give you a officers by branch/corps and enlisted by branch/corps accounting

Frankly, I think you are quoting Atkinson correctly, but perhaps your interpretation of the definition of the Africa-Middle East Theater and the US Army’s definition are two (or three counting Atkinson) entirely different animals as the vast majority of the casualties accounted for in the Army report for the Africa-Middle East Theater are USAAF (see page 84). Specifically:

Total Battle Deaths:
Combat Divisions: 0
USAAF: 3,723
Other Units: 79
Organizations undetermined: 157
Total: 3,959.

Now, if you want to talk about the Mediterranean Theater (of which I believe your quoted Atkinson figures are a sub-set of 175,107 total casualties including 35,313 KIA for the entire war) that is a whole different ballgame.

Looking on page 34 for the US Army monthly breakdown of casualties for the Mediterranean Theater:

7 December 41 to 31 October 1942
Total Casualties: 146
Total KIA: 18
Total WIA including deaths: 65
Total POW including deaths: 45
Total MIA including deaths: 18
Total deaths including KIA, WIA, POW, & MIA: 29

And
From 1 November 1942 through 31 May 43 (closest I can get to the period you cite):
Total Casualties: 18,764
Total KIA: 3,326
Total WIA including deaths: 10,319
Total POW including deaths: 4,510
Total MIA including deaths: 609
Total deaths including KIA, WIA, POW, & MIA: 3,905
And of the POWs, 53 died of various battle or non-battle causes and 4,457 were returned to military control. For the MIA's 165 were declared to have died and 444 were returned to duty/military control. 361 of the WIA died of their wounds or injuries and 9,958 were either discharged or returned to duty.

Rich

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