Swastikas in the US Army

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Brig
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Swastikas in the US Army

#1

Post by Brig » 03 Jan 2003, 02:27

I hear you guys discussed this once, and I'm not sure of the best place to put it, so I'll put it here. I stumbled upon a piece this week at a local flea market, digging through trays of jewelry and some military pins. Got a handful of US pins and this interesting item, for the Hell of it, in my hand for a good deal so I figured 'what the hell'? Anyway, at first I thought it was a fantasy piece. Then someone told me the 45th Division used the Swastika normal and mirrored on shoulder patches, etc in the 30s. Someone else said it might be Boy Scouts, hence the arrow. Another person said it may have just been a good-luck charm, since it was an Indian symbol for such (hence the arrow). It's very small, less than an inch long, and I think it's made of silver or pewter or something. The swastika is backwards, and the pinback is similar to the pin on the back of my WWII USMC pistol Marksmanship medal from 1942. If anyone can tell me anything about the Swastika in the US Armed Forces and/or BSA, or just about this piece in general, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to see pics of other US Army iotems with the swastika on it. It sort of interests me. Thanks
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Angelo
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Swastikas in the US Army

#2

Post by Angelo » 03 Jan 2003, 04:03

Hi Brig,

After reading your post, I just spent a little time browsing through the net
and the little I found seems to confirm that effectively the swastika symbol
was adopted by the 45th. US Infantry Division, back in 1920.

A source also referred to Boy Scouts using it, but I didn't check into that.

Here's the two excerpts and their sources.
The Times tries to give credibility to the pro-swastika movement by noting that swastikas appeared as a symbol of good luck long before the Nazis got their mitts on it: in 3000 B.C. in Asia, in synagogues from Palestine to Connecticut, on a pendant issued by Coca-Cola, on American 45th Infantry division uniforms in WWI, on a Boy Scout badge until the 1940s.
Source:http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml ... /31/225315
------------------------------------------------------------------

The 45th Infantry Division traces its roots to the Oklahoma Territorial MIlitia which was formed in 1890. Elements of the Oklahoma Militia were called upon to suuport operation in Cuba during the Spanish American War and the 1st Oklahoma Infantry Regiment fought in the Mexican Border Conflict in 1916. This Regiment was formed after Oklahoma was admitted to the Union in 1907.

In 1920, the 45th Infantry Division was formed from elemments of the National Guard units of Oklahoma, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. When it was first formed, the Division wore an ancient symbol of good luck, the swastika. When Hitler came to power, the division wisely adopted a new symbol, the Thuderbird.
Source:http://www.grunts.net/army/45thid.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to see both the old swastika symbol and the subsequent
thunderbird icon, please check with:


http://www.45thdivisionmuseum.com/DivFo ... formed.htm

The picture is accompanied by a small summary concerning the adoption
of the new Thunderbird symbol after Hitler had chosen the swastika for
his own Party. Worth noticing: the 4 tentacles of the 45th.'s swastika ran
in the opposite direction in respect to those belonging to the Nazi version.

Regards.

Angelo


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Brig
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#3

Post by Brig » 03 Jan 2003, 04:09

thanks

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#4

Post by Brig » 03 Jan 2003, 18:53

here's a few Boy Scout things I found. found no reference to anything besides the White Swastika, the Thanks Badge, and the shoelace token, though
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White Swastika Award 1.jpg
White Swastika Award 1.jpg (7.78 KiB) Viewed 2536 times
White Swastika Award 2.jpg
White Swastika Award 2.jpg (7.37 KiB) Viewed 2537 times
Thanks Badge Canadian.jpg
Thanks Badge Canadian.jpg (19.02 KiB) Viewed 2538 times

ChristopherPerrien
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US Army Swastiskas

#5

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 11 Jan 2003, 22:54

Wish I had a 45th patch been looking for one,

A little history,

Swastikas have been around a long time, it was put on a US army patch because it was taken from a symbol that American indians used. I believe
the 45th infantry started as a national guard unit from Texas or New Mexico, they borrowed it from the Hopi indians.

There are two swastikas, one that goes clockwise and one that goes counter-clockwise. The Nazi's used a counter-clockwise one, that should actually be called a swavasticka(spelling?) which was/is a very old symbol
for darkess and black magic also used by the Thug followers of the evil goddess Kali in India (Indiana Jones Temple of Doom).

Sadly a true swastika (clockwise) is a symbol of the Sun, light and good
it is also a symbol of Budda a christ-lke personage in the East. It was also a primary sun symbol for the sun worshipping religion that took hold over the Roman Empire before Christianity replace it.

The crooked cross can also be taken a symbol as to the endlessness time
in relation to the sun.

Wheel in the Sky keeps on burning- is actually very old allegory. The wheel being the sun, has been represented by many races and religions for ages as the Crooked-Cross.

ChristopherPerrien
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US Army Swastiskas

#6

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 11 Jan 2003, 22:56

Wish I had a 45th patch been looking for one,

A little history,

Swastikas have been around a long time, it was put on a US army patch because it was taken from a symbol that American indians used. I believe
the 45th infantry started as a national guard unit from Texas or New Mexico, they borrowed it from the Hopi indians.

There are two swastikas, one that goes clockwise and one that goes counter-clockwise. The Nazi's used a counter-clockwise one, that should actually be called a swavasticka(spelling?) which was/is a very old symbol
for darkess and black magic also used by the Thug followers of the evil goddess Kali in India (Indiana Jones Temple of Doom).

Sadly a true swastika (clockwise) is a symbol of the Sun, light and good
it is also a symbol of Budda a christ-lke personage in the East. It was also a primary sun symbol for the sun worshipping religion that took hold over the Roman Empire before Christianity replace it.

The crooked cross can also be taken a symbol as to the endlessness time
in relation to the sun.

Wheel in the Sky keeps on burning- is actually very old allegory. The wheel being the sun, has been represented by many races and religions for ages as the Crooked-Cross.

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#7

Post by Johannes » 23 Jan 2003, 12:16

Hi,

I remembered that there was a scene in the movie Platoon where a tank was flying the Nazi flag. What is their problem?

-Johannes

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Platoon

#8

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 30 Jan 2003, 22:10

You gotta luv Hollywood. Ask Oliver Stone about that one.

There could have been instances of this type of stuff, The nazi symbol could be constued as a "Death cult" sort of thing. Like the Ace of Spades or grinning skulls, Tankers love that kinda stuff.

I think that may have been why it was used prolifically by the SS, to symbolize the "death do us part aspect of allegiance" to Hitler, this was one of Himmler's favorite ideas- nazism as religion, Hitler as god.

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Johannes
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Re: Platoon

#9

Post by Johannes » 02 Feb 2003, 21:16

ChristopherPerrien wrote:You gotta luv Hollywood. Ask Oliver Stone about that one.

There could have been instances of this type of stuff, The nazi symbol could be constued as a "Death cult" sort of thing. Like the Ace of Spades or grinning skulls, Tankers love that kinda stuff.

I think that may have been why it was used prolifically by the SS, to symbolize the "death do us part aspect of allegiance" to Hitler, this was one of Himmler's favorite ideas- nazism as religion, Hitler as god.
I sure love Hollywood... Can't the guys in Platoon think democracy as religion, George Washington as god?

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Re: Swastikas in the US Army

#10

Post by Cantankerous » 07 Apr 2023, 17:39

This thread may be two decades old, but I found a webpage regarding the initial use of the swastika by soldiers of the 45th Infantry Division on their left shoulder patches of their uniforms:
https://45thdivisionmuseum.com/index.ph ... underbird/

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Re: Swastikas in the US Army

#11

Post by LAstryAGAIN » 14 Apr 2023, 17:07

the 45th Div Swastika was gold on a red background
The Nazi Swastika was black on a white background and was tilted and pointed differently

ironically a German Jewish ace of WW I had a good luck swastika=white on a dark background
Fritz Beckhardt
http://daytonholocaust.org/resourcesexh ... f-the-air/

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Re: Platoon

#12

Post by LineDoggie » 15 Apr 2023, 00:00

Johannes wrote:
02 Feb 2003, 21:16


I sure love Hollywood... Can't the guys in Platoon think democracy as religion, George Washington as god?
George Washington was not only a Slave Owner but while President his wife's slave (Oney Judge) escaped to freedom. He tried to have her kidnapped back into slavery.


No Man is God

Except John Moses Browning
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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