Help to Id. US artillery

[Richard Anderson]

US 2nd Armored Division did retain some 37mm @ Normandy many mounted on Halftracks

Yep, in the 41st AIR, but those were not converted 37mm Antitank Guns M3 mounted on the Half-Track Cars M2, although they were 37mm M3 Guns. They were the 37mm Gun M3A1 on Pedestal Mount and Shield M25 or M26 from a 37mm GMC M6. When the M6 was classified Limited Standard in September 1943, all stocks in excess of 100 be converted back to 3/4-ton Weapons Carriers with Winch. The excess 37mm guns, mounts, and shield were turned over to the Maintenance Branch, Ordnance Field Service, which is how the 2d Armored Division got them.

The curious thing of course is that the 2d and 3d AD also were authorized the 37mm Gun M3 as well - the towed version. I've looked for years without success, but Don Huston in his doctoral thesis left some breadcrumbs that make me think the towed 37mm guns were exchanged for the former M6 mounts while the division was in Sicily. Then when they got to England they apparently exchanged all their remaining 37mm towed guns - they had a lot of them - for 57mm Guns M1.

[LineDoggie]

US 2nd Armored Division did retain some 37mm @ Normandy many mounted on Halftracks

Yep, in the 41st AIR, but those were not converted 37mm Antitank Guns M3 mounted on the Half-Track Cars M2, although they were 37mm M3 Guns. They were the 37mm Gun M3A1 on Pedestal Mount and Shield M25 or M26 from a 37mm GMC M6. When the M6 was classified Limited Standard in September 1943, all stocks in excess of 100 be converted back to 3/4-ton Weapons Carriers with Winch. The excess 37mm guns, mounts, and shield were turned over to the Maintenance Branch, Ordnance Field Service, which is how the 2d Armored Division got them.

The curious thing of course is that the 2d and 3d AD also were authorized the 37mm Gun M3 as well - the towed version. I've looked for years without success, but Don Huston in his doctoral thesis left some breadcrumbs that make me think the towed 37mm guns were exchanged for the former M6 mounts while the division was in Sicily. Then when they got to England they apparently exchanged all their remaining 37mm towed guns - they had a lot of them - for 57mm Guns M1.

I'm under the impression 2AD's vehicles were left in Sicily for 1AD to take over and they received new issue in the UK. "Roll Again Second Armored'' by Major Norris Perkins of 3rd Bn,66th Armor makes reference to it

[Richard Anderson]

I'm under the impression 2AD's vehicles were left in Sicily for 1AD to take over and they received new issue in the UK. "Roll Again Second Armored'' by Major Norris Perkins of 3rd Bn,66th Armor makes reference to it

Hah! Good point and I should have thought of that since I'm re=reading Houston right now - the book, not his thesis. Sadly, the thesis is much better, but stops with D-Day.

Anyway, yes, the guns would have come from depots in ETOUSA. I'll have to look and see which TD battalions may have been there with the M6.

[Sturm78]

Sturm78 wrote
Well, here another image from Ebay.
An 12.7mm twin AA machinegun on an 37mm AA gun mount. Was this a standarized weapon or only prototype ??

ROLAND1369 wrote
Strictly experimental. A version of the towed 37 mm aa gun was produced in small numbers but it had the M 2 water cooled version of the 50 Can not the aircraft version of this picture. The Marine Defense battalions developed and deployed a version with 2-20 MM Oerlikon on both the 37 mm and 40 MM Bofors carriages with the 37 and 40 MM ordnance removed. It was fielded as an anti-dive bomber weapon . This could be a developmental version. The 50 cal 37 MM system was mounted on the Half Track carriage with 50 M2HB guns replacing the water cooled versions. and remained in us service thru the Korean War.

viewtopic.php?f=113&t=159469&start=795 post number 805

This new image seems demonstrate that this model was mass-produced in some quantities...the image is dated in 1944, Fort Bliss

Sturm78

[ROLAND1369]

It is not listed in the manual nor the standard ordnance catalogue. This more likely the standard 37 mm mount with the 37 mm gun removed. It is probably used for training crews on tracer firing as preliminary firing prior to use of the m 15 a1 sp mount. I have seen no operational use of this weapon. At this time period the towed weapon had been pretty much replaced in europe by the SP mount. Thus not massed produced but an obsolete weapon system for training. The M 15 a1 used the upper portion of the 37 mm towed gun on a half track chasis. The use of the air cooled 50 cal is most likely due to the use of air cooled guns on the M15a1. These have a different rate of firing than the water cooled guns normally present on the towed mount.

[Sturm78]

Hi ROLAND1369,

Well, probably you are right. Maybe not mass-produced as new equipments but it does seem like there were numerous conversions if only for training....
I wouldn't call the 37mm M1 an obsolete weapon in 1943-1944, even if it was supplemented and later replaced by the more effective 40mm Bofors.

Regards
Sturm78

[Richard Anderson]

It is not listed in the manual nor the standard ordnance catalogue. This more likely the standard 37 mm mount with the 37 mm gun removed. It is probably used for training crews on tracer firing as preliminary firing prior to use of the m 15 a1 sp mount. I have seen no operational use of this weapon. At this time period the towed weapon had been pretty much replaced in europe by the SP mount. Thus not massed produced but an obsolete weapon system for training. The M 15 a1 used the upper portion of the 37 mm towed gun on a half track chasis. The use of the air cooled 50 cal is most likely due to the use of air cooled guns on the M15a1. These have a different rate of firing than the water cooled guns normally present on the towed mount.

Um, those are Marines posing with those BTW. Utilities and boondockers.

Anyway, insofar as I have been able to determine, the 37mm only deployed to Europe on the M15 and M15A1 (and M28E1). Some may have deployed to Tunisia, Sicily, and Italy with the CA (AA) Regiments. Otherwise, the 37mm was at Pearl Harbor on 7 December - sans ammunition - and then was used extensively by the CA (AA) Regiments in the Pacific.

These however are training mounts for the scale range at Fort Bliss and are similar to the .22 caliber scale ranges used in CA instruction interwar and are analogous to the .22, .50, 37mm, and 75mm subcaliber mounts used for CA practice.

[LineDoggie]

Um, those are Marines posing with those BTW. Utilities and boondockers.

Nope look close at the standing man you can see a flap covered no buttoning pocket on the right breast, that means he is wearing the Army coveralls ,aka ''Suit, Working, One-Piece, Herringbone Twill''

Now the USMC also used them but it was not a strictly Marine item

[Richard Anderson]

Now the USMC also used them but it was not a strictly Marine item

Damn, good call, I got seduced by the look of the boots and missed the flapped pocket on the right breast, so they can't be P41. Wrong HBT.

Yeah, AFAIK only the Marine tankers ever used the Army coveralls and even then I only seem to recall seeing them in training photos at Jacques Farm. Most of the tankers at Tarawa seemed to wear P41 or P42 or a mixture of the two.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

An 10in 254mm US coastal gun. According to photocaption Fort Stevens (Oregon)
Can somebody identify the exact model ?

In Fort Stevens there were various batteries with 10in guns of different model.
How is possible differenciate betwen the different models of the 10in 254mm US coastal guns ?

10in M1888 on Carriage Disappearing M1984
10in M1895 on Carriage Disappearing M1896
10in M1900 on Carriage Disappearing M1901

Sturm78

[ROLAND1369]

This is an M 1888 gun on an m 1894 CD LF Carriage. The id is confirmed by the rear traversing mechanism which shows the chain running over the wheel with the hand cranks.

[ROLAND1369]

Correction, should be "m1894 DC LF". Big fingers, little keys.

[ROLAND1369]

Re: Help to Id. US artillery Post #923 29 May 2020 01:45. If these are in fact Marines these would be a logical training aid as they would make a perfect subcaliber training aid for the twin 20 mm guns mounted on M3 37 MM AA carriages used by the Marines.

[CharlieC]

Hi ROLAND1369

<< snip >>

On the other hand, I found this curious image of a Vickers 8in (203mm) howitzer with tracked carriage. I suppose that this is one of the many artillery experiments of US Army in the period 1918-1920...

Sturm78

A bit later than that - the experiments in tracked carriages for field artillery seem to have been around 1921-22. The idea was to reduce the ground pressure of the field piece so that it became possible to tow over soft ground. With tracked artillery tractors it was possible to tow guns over soft ground but they could be damaged if the wheels dug it. One of the earliest examples of tracked carriages were the ex-USN 7inch guns produced before
on land carriages (http://landships/landships/artillery_ar ... _Mk_2.html). I've attached an image of the tracked carriage for the 155mm M1918 (GPF) gun, I had not seen an image of the equivalent carriage for the 8inch howitzer.

Regards,

Charlie

[Sturm78]

Roland1369
This is an M 1888 gun on an m 1894 CD LF Carriage. The id is confirmed by the rear traversing mechanism which shows the chain running over the wheel with the hand cranks.

Thanks, Roland.. So Battery Lewis or Walker, therefore.

Regards
Sturm78