USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

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Lagami
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USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#1

Post by Lagami » 14 Jan 2016, 00:31

Hey,

I have just stumbled upon this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7RAc06Xyg8
This woman wants to put down Victor Suvorovs books by saying that the USA made a "decision" in 1941, April, that they would aid Germany if it was attacked by the ussr or (which took place) aid the ussr if they were attacked by Germany.
Unfortunately she does not mention any further details about this "decision".
This sounds very interesting though. Can anyone provide a source for this?

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#2

Post by OpanaPointer » 14 Jan 2016, 01:33

Yeah, Suvorov. Otherwise, it's just bull shit.
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Takao
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#3

Post by Takao » 14 Jan 2016, 09:12

When Truman was reported to have said that, he was not Vice President in 1941...He was just a Senator from Missouri. Not exactly a position to be dictating US policy.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#4

Post by Lagami » 15 Jan 2016, 20:18

So?
OpanaPointer says there is no real source for this but Takao says Truman was reported to have said that? I'm confused now.

@Takao: Nontheless, even if he was in no dictating position, why would he say that? It is a thing that makes the USA look worse since they would have helped the "evil" ones of world war 2. The Nazis seem to have been the enemies for the USA even before Pearl Harbor. So why would Truman say that he would've eventually helped his enemies if they would've been attacked? That's kinda nonsense.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#5

Post by Delta Tank » 15 Jan 2016, 21:31

Lagami,

Here is the quote;
"Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other."
Harry Truman in U.S. Senate on June 5, 1941

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#6

Post by Lagami » 15 Jan 2016, 21:38

Delta Tank wrote:Lagami,

Here is the quote;
"Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other."
Harry Truman in U.S. Senate on June 5, 1941
This quote is one of the weirdest quotes I have ever read. This does just sound extremely grotesque and I can't find any plausible reason for why he said that.
This does just make him look like he didn't give a damn about who they should work together with and instead just stick with the stronger one. Really weird. Or am I missing something? Does it make more sense if one hears his full speech and not just this one sentence out of it.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#7

Post by Delta Tank » 15 Jan 2016, 21:43

Lagami,

Harry Truman is trying to say that Germany and Russia (USSR) were countries run by evil people and he hoped that both would kill each other off so we and the world would not have to be bothered by either one.

Mike

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#8

Post by Lagami » 15 Jan 2016, 21:53

Delta Tank wrote:Lagami,

Harry Truman is trying to say that Germany and Russia (USSR) were countries run by evil people and he hoped that both would kill each other off so we and the world would not have to be bothered by either one.

Mike
Oh okay now that makes perfect sense obviously.
Still a pretty harsh and uncivilized thing to say though.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#9

Post by Takao » 15 Jan 2016, 22:35

Lagami wrote: Oh okay now that makes perfect sense obviously.
Still a pretty harsh and uncivilized thing to say though.
I believe the entire passage is usually quoted as
If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don't want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances. Neither of them thinks anything of their pledged word.

Pretty harsh and uncivilized???

Remember...The Soviets had also participated in the invasion of Poland in 1939, then had occupied the Baltic States(Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania) in 1940, and finally had fought the Winter War with Finland in 1940-41. Personally, I'd say that Truman was being quite lenient towards the Soviet Union, and that the Soviet Union was well deserving of harsh and uncivilized treatment.

Of course, the Russian woman's blurb video is NOT going to tell you that the Soviet Union participated in the subjugation of Poland, the military takeover of the Baltic States, and that they began a war with Finland.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#10

Post by OpanaPointer » 15 Jan 2016, 23:42

Lagami wrote:So?
OpanaPointer says there is no real source for this but Takao says Truman was reported to have said that? I'm confused now.
That's what happens when people go quote mining.
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#11

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 26 Jan 2016, 06:59

Lagami wrote:
Delta Tank wrote:Lagami,

Here is the quote;
"Let's help the Russians when the Germans are winning and the Germans when the Russians are winning. So each may kill off as many as possible of the other."
Harry Truman in U.S. Senate on June 5, 1941
This quote is one of the weirdest quotes I have ever read. This does just sound extremely grotesque and I can't find any plausible reason for why he said that.
This does just make him look like he didn't give a damn about who they should work together with and instead just stick with the stronger one. Really weird. Or am I missing something? Does it make more sense if one hears his full speech and not just this one sentence out of it.
Given Trumans background in the rough world of St Louis, Kansas City/s & early 20th Century Missouri in general the quote makes sense to me.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#12

Post by Nickdfresh » 31 Jan 2016, 19:25

Obviously this was just an off-the-cuff statement is Truman indeed stated it. As stated, there was no policy and nothing official. But Hitler didn't need America's help in Killing Soviets - he had Stalin's help! And vice versa perhaps...

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#13

Post by OpanaPointer » 31 Jan 2016, 19:47

Quote mining requires that portions of a statement be trimmed off in order to support the appearance of a position that doesn't actually exist. The truncated statement of Truman's is one such case.
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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#14

Post by genstab » 31 Jan 2016, 23:07

I read somewhere that Suvorov was a fake, a CIA creation.

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Re: USA plans to aid whoever gets attacked in Europe?

#15

Post by Stephen_Rynerson » 01 Feb 2016, 14:37

Lagami wrote:So?
OpanaPointer says there is no real source for this but Takao says Truman was reported to have said that? I'm confused now.
The correct Truman quote is as Takao gives it. On-line sources and Google Books results overwhelmingly point to a June 24, 1941 New York Times story as the original source of the quote, not the Congressional Record, so it appears this was not something Truman said on the floor of the Senate (as Delta Tank indicated), but a remark made to a reporter.

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