US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

[what's up?]

Just in case I posted in the wrong section of the forum!

It is well known that Japan's leaders thought declaring war on GB and the Netherlands will inevitable bring the US to war as well, hence PH. I'm wondering if that assumption is true. Is there anything published discussing this matter?

Thanks in advance!

[OpanaPointer]

The President's cabinet had twice, since June 1941, advised him unanimously that they thought he could get a declaration of war against Japan if they moved against Malaya and NEI without attacking US territory. Among other places this can be found in Stimson's voluminous diaries.

[what's up?]

Thanks for your reply!

They thought he could get a declaration sounds still pretty vague. There must have been a some kind of consideration on that matter. As impropable a Japanese attack against US territory may have been considered, a southward move was certainly not out of question in late 1941.

[Eugen Pinak]

It is well known that Japan's leaders thought declaring war on GB and the Netherlands will inevitable bring the US to war as well, hence PH. I'm wondering if that assumption is true. Is there anything published discussing this matter?

Yes - their assumption was correct at least in the late 1941. You can find some info on this matter in "Pearl Harbor Papers".

[OpanaPointer]

You can read a thorough breakdown of Japanese intentions as things progressed in the Monographs. http://ibiblio.org/pha/monos/

[Hoist40]

So what happens when US forces in the western Pacific lose badly since Roosevelt had failed to prepare them for war because of his obsession of sending equipment to the British and Russians

Philippines was no way ready for war

Guam was undefended

Wake was not ready for war

Midway wasn’t

Hawaii wasn’t

Its one thing to declare war, its another to be ready to fight it. And Roosevelt would not have a surprise attack to blame.

[OpanaPointer]

So what happens when US forces in the western Pacific lose badly since Roosevelt had failed to prepare them for war because of his obsession of sending equipment to the British and Russians

I see you're a Republican.

[Hoist40]

No I am an American.

Do you think that the places I mentioned were ready for war?

[OpanaPointer]

No I am an American.

Do you think that the places I mentioned were ready for war?

I'm sure you're a Republican. But tell me, who fought rearmament in the days before Pearl Harbor?

[Hoist40]

What party had control of the White House, Congress and was packing the Supreme Court. And they were giving away US armaments to the British, Dutch, Chinese and Soviets.

[OpanaPointer]

What party had control of the White House, Congress and was packing the Supreme Court. And they were giving away US armaments to the British, Dutch, Chinese and Soviets.

There was no packing of the Supreme Court, that little project failed. As for giving weapons to people who were actually fighting the war, that doesn't make sense to you? We gave 500,000 rifles to the British after Dunkirk. They were our ally and they were in dire straits. Isolationists would have had us ignore them. That was a minority opinion and abysmally stupid.

BTW, the GOP was in favor of helping our allies. The Republican party platform in 1940 mentioned "Defense" eleven times. The Lend-Lease bill passed with Republican support.

[Hoist40]

We gave 500,000 rifles to the British after Dunkirk.

And they went to the Home Guard who fought nobody while at the same time US troops in Philippines had shortages of guns and ammo

[OpanaPointer]

We gave 500,000 rifles to the British after Dunkirk.

And they went to the Home Guard who fought nobody while at the same time US troops in Philippines had shortages of guns and ammo

The PI was under imminent threat of invasion, now was it? And given that the PI was written off in War Plan Rainbow-5 there wasn't all that much urgency is sending weapons the Japanese would take away from the local forces.

[Hoist40]

But Roosevelt had overrode War Plan Rainbow 5 when he called up the Philippine Reserve Divisions and ordered a defense of Philippines.

And Philippines would have been in danger of invasion if the US had declared war on Japan because Japan had invaded British/Dutch colonies.

[Carl Schwamberger]

To answer his question I would recommend the OP read up on the literature on the development of War Plan Orange, the Plan Dog Memo, and the post 1939 development of the Rainbow Plans. As back ground for this; reading on the US voters attitudes towards military spending from 1919 through 1940/41 and the resulting military budgets is recommended.

The short version is the US voters & their representatives consistently passed reduced military budgets for two decades. When France collapsed in 1940 they frantically reversed this policy, but when 7 December 1942 rolled around they went to war with the military they had paid for in the previous two decades.