US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

Discussions on all aspects of the United States of America during the Inter-War era and Second World War. Hosted by Carl Schwamberger.
OpanaPointer
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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#16

Post by OpanaPointer » 13 Jul 2017, 00:39

Hoist40 wrote:But Roosevelt had overrode War Plan Rainbow 5 when he called up the Philippine Reserve Divisions and ordered a defense of Philippines.

And Philippines would have been in danger of invasion if the US had declared war on Japan because Japan had invaded British/Dutch colonies.
No, he didn't override Rainbow-5, it was still in effect. If we had had another year before war started it might have been revised, but not until the PI had the forces needed to hold out for a year.

The Japanese paradigm for war with the US was the Great All-out Battle. The USN would come charging across the Pacific into Japanese-controlled waters. The Fleet would be attrited by submarines, airplanes, destroyer attack, etc., and when we arrived the intact Imperial Japanese Navy would be waiting for us. They WANTED us to try and relieve the PI in 1942, it was their wet dream. Weirdly enough, Yamamoto Isoruku killed that dream at Pearl Harbor.
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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#17

Post by OpanaPointer » 13 Jul 2017, 00:42

Carl Schwamberger wrote:To answer his question I would recommend the OP read up on the literature on the development of War Plan Orange, the Plan Dog Memo, and the post 1939 development of the Rainbow Plans. As back ground for this; reading on the US voters attitudes towards military spending from 1919 through 1940/41 and the resulting military budgets is recommended.

The short version is the US voters & their representatives consistently passed reduced military budgets for two decades. When France collapsed in 1940 they frantically reversed this policy, but when 7 December 1942 rolled around they went to war with the military they had paid for in the previous two decades.
Plan Dog is available on my site. The ABC-1 conversations are there as well, those talks laid out the "Germany first" rule, meaning that the Pacific was second place in the war efforts. The Gallup Polls from September 1939 through the war are available as well.
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LineDoggie
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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#18

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jul 2017, 03:40

OpanaPointer wrote:
Hoist40 wrote:So what happens when US forces in the western Pacific lose badly since Roosevelt had failed to prepare them for war because of his obsession of sending equipment to the British and Russians
I see you're a Republican.
Well thats not too asinine a post.

The Philippine Army wasnt ready, nor was Wake or Guam for war
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
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LineDoggie
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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#19

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jul 2017, 03:41

OpanaPointer wrote:
Hoist40 wrote:No I am an American.

Do you think that the places I mentioned were ready for war?
I'm sure you're a Republican. But tell me, who fought rearmament in the days before Pearl Harbor?
You seem obsessed with posters Political POV for daring to criticize US Unpreparedness for War in the Pacific.
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#20

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jul 2017, 03:43

OpanaPointer wrote:
Hoist40 wrote:What party had control of the White House, Congress and was packing the Supreme Court. And they were giving away US armaments to the British, Dutch, Chinese and Soviets.
There was no packing of the Supreme Court, that little project failed. As for giving weapons to people who were actually fighting the war, that doesn't make sense to you? We gave 500,000 rifles to the British after Dunkirk. They were our ally and they were in dire straits. Isolationists would have had us ignore them. That was a minority opinion and abysmally stupid.

BTW, the GOP was in favor of helping our allies. The Republican party platform in 1940 mentioned "Defense" eleven times. The Lend-Lease bill passed with Republican support.
John F Kennedy and his daddy were also those Isolationists, nice try on the propaganda though
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

LineDoggie
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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#21

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jul 2017, 03:45

OpanaPointer wrote:
Hoist40 wrote:
We gave 500,000 rifles to the British after Dunkirk.
And they went to the Home Guard who fought nobody while at the same time US troops in Philippines had shortages of guns and ammo
The PI was under imminent threat of invasion, now was it? And given that the PI was written off in War Plan Rainbow-5 there wasn't all that much urgency is sending weapons the Japanese would take away from the local forces.
Then why force the men to fight for no reason if the PI was incapable of being defended? why waste American and Filipino boys like that? why Not withdraw them to defendable locations?
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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Re: US intentions in case Japan would move south w/o declaring war?

#22

Post by OpanaPointer » 13 Jul 2017, 12:43

LineDoggie wrote:
OpanaPointer wrote:
Hoist40 wrote:
We gave 500,000 rifles to the British after Dunkirk.
And they went to the Home Guard who fought nobody while at the same time US troops in Philippines had shortages of guns and ammo
The PI was under imminent threat of invasion, now was it? And given that the PI was written off in War Plan Rainbow-5 there wasn't all that much urgency is sending weapons the Japanese would take away from the local forces.
Then why force the men to fight for no reason if the PI was incapable of being defended? why waste American and Filipino boys like that? why Not withdraw them to defendable locations?
Maybe because it was their home? They could have rolled over and presented their bellies, I guess.
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