M-1 Grand Rifle

[South]

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... rand-44857


Good afternoon all,

Not mentioned in the article is the famous expression "M-1 thumb", a result if not properly loading the en bloc clip.

Yes: RELIABILITY.

Note the mentioned historic "marksmanship versus volume of fire" matter.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Duncan_M]

Pretty bad article, repeats common myths like the clip PING nonsense. And M1 Thumb is something that happens to people who have never been taught how to use it.

[South]

Good morning Duncan,

Appreciate info.

I also never heard of the PING matter.

One headache with the M-1 thumb issue had less to do with instruction and more so having enough practice to perform the loading maneuver both with and without gloves. At least, that's what I remember.


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Delta Tank]

To all,

This paragraph makes me wonder if the author knows that the 1903 Springfield was also chambered in 30-06.

“However, even the Marines changed their minds once they used M-1s during the Battle of Guadalcanal in 1942-43. The Springfield might have been the more precise weapon, but unless you were a sniper, the M-1’s rate of fire and the ability of the powerful .30-06 round to penetrate thick jungle foliage mattered more than match marksmanship.”

I own a Garand and a 1903 Springfield. The sights on the Springfield are too fine, difficult to use in low light conditions. The Garand sights are much better. The Garand is also a lot of fun to shoot!!

Mike
PS I had hate auto spell check! And I couldn’t get the quote function to work on my IPad.

[LineDoggie]

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... rand-44857


Good afternoon all,

Not mentioned in the article is the famous expression "M-1 thumb", a result if not properly loading the en bloc clip.

Yes: RELIABILITY.

Note the mentioned historic "marksmanship versus volume of fire" matter.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

Greatly enhanced due to Ordnance reports from USAFFE in early 42. Rains tended to wash away the oil on the bolt locking lugs and recesses and Oprod and cause binding and stoppages. Lubriplate grease was found to be the fix


The Ping myth is crap, try hearing it on a battlefield during a firefight and it assumes that a G.I.

Is alone
and Cannot reload in seconds

[South]

Good afternoon Delta Tank . Mike and Line Doggie,

Appreciate contributions to thread.



~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Duncan_M]

Good morning Duncan,

Appreciate info.

I also never heard of the PING matter.

One headache with the M-1 thumb issue had less to do with instruction and more so having enough practice to perform the loading maneuver both with and without gloves. At least, that's what I remember.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

With or without gloves, the blade bottom part of the firing hand is used to hold back the operating rod while the thumb of the same hand shoves in the clip. When it clicks and is seated, the thumb is removed and then the hand is moved, and depending on the rifle, the operating rod and bolt will either slam forward on their own or the firing hand will have to be used to bump the lever forward, to goose it. Either way, the bladed part of the firing hand keeps the thumb from being squished.



This wasn't optional, this was the only authorized way to reload the M1 Garand while in training, and was essentially drilled into every shooter's head. So yes, they all would have practice on that method, as no other method was used unless unofficially, and with the understanding that you could end up hurting yourself.

[South]

Good afternoon Duncan,

Good info especially when augmented by the picture of action.

Training time could be - very - limited.

Practice ? Last on the list.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Duncan_M]

Good afternoon Duncan,

Good info especially when augmented by the picture of action.

Training time could be - very - limited.

Practice ? Last on the list.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

It was limited but not enough to not learn how to operate a rifle. That's not day 1 stuff, but its close.

[Felix C]

I read that one could top up the enbloc with loose rounds in lulls. I presume it was just easier to eject the enbloc and stuff a fully loaded one in. Is that where the Thumb issue occurs?

[Duncan_M]

I read that one could top up the enbloc with loose rounds in lulls. I presume it was just easier to eject the enbloc and stuff a fully loaded one in. Is that where the Thumb issue occurs?

Garand thumb happens when using the thumb to shove in a fully loaded clip. Afterwards, with some rifles the bolt and operating rod will go forward on their own, automatically, when the clip is fully seated. Nonetheless, if nothing is holding back the op rod handle then the bolt can slam into the thumb if its still in there, bruising it,maybe breaking if if shooter is unlucky. But the easiest way to avoid that is to leave the flat portion of right hand against the op rod handle while the right thumb pushes down. Once it clicks, thumb is removed, then right hand is removed, either bolt goes forward on its own or just tap the op rod handle forward.

Notice the bladed portion of the bottom of his right hand, its holding back the op rod handle, which is locked back until the clip is seated. If it releases, the bladed portion of hand prevents it from moving forward.



Yes, a clip inside the weapon can be loaded with loose rounds, but few carried loose rounds, they carried full clips, so its easier to just pull the bolt back with the right hand, hit the ejector to pop out the partially filled clip, and load a new one. Or else just shoot what is in it to lock it back without any fuss.

[Delta Tank]

To all,
I always wonder why the US Army didn’t just put a 20 round magazine on the M-1 as a modification. So, I did a little search on the Internet and apparently that improvement was examined. This is not the site I previously found, but it may spark a search by those interested.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/box-maga ... en-weapon/

Mike

[Duncan_M]

To all,
I always wonder why the US Army didn’t just put a 20 round magazine on the M-1 as a modification. So, I did a little search on the Internet and apparently that improvement was examined. This is not the site I previously found, but it may spark a search by those interested.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/box-maga ... en-weapon/
Mike

My guess is why complicate things?

The M1 was doing well as an infantry rifle, bugs were largely worked out, and while an increased magazine that was detachable might have been nice it would have come with a price (being very heavy). Also, more so, it would have meant a design and production change mid war, reissuing and modifications of millions of rifles, the need for probably millions of magazines, new pouches to be issued, increased supply of ammo for basic load, putting a strain on logistics, etc.

[Keystone]

Consider that the 1903 Springfield and 1917 Enfield held 6 rounds (max.), the Garand had a 30% increase in capacity.

[von thoma]

It's true that an annoying rod doesn't stop moving during the shots ?

M1 Garand.jpg (159.37 KiB) Viewed 941 times