The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

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Gorque
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 05 Dec 2019 02:39

Hi Sid:

You may want to give his a read

http://www.bender-publishing.com/GABund.html


It was reviewed on the forum here:


viewtopic.php?t=177687

Sid Guttridge
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 05 Dec 2019 14:07

Hi Gorque,

I noticed that earlier, but did not follow it up. The title, They too were Americans, made me suspicious of a whitewash.

It looked like an uncritical view of the Bund in the way that most Bender books are values-neutral analyses of aspects of the Third Reich. Perhaps I was misjudging it by the company it keeps.

From the links you give, it does not seem to cover the organization's links to the German Embassy, or, indeed, British representation and misrepresentation of its activities in 1940/41. Still, before offering an opinion, perhaps I should read it first!

Cheers,

Sid.

rcocean
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by rcocean » 06 Dec 2019 17:44

You guys must be paid to put all this "Research" on this thread. Copying from Newspapers? What a lot of effort over nothing.

But maybe your very interested in trivia. Fred Trump had zero to do with the Bund or the KKK, and the neither organization had anything to do with the USA being isolationist before WW 2. Both were fringe groups with few members. But - like today - the Left back then wanted people to think they were massively important, like the Communists.

Gallup Polls consistently showed 75-80% of Americans were "isolationist" and wanted to stay out of ww2. That's why FDR never asked for declaration of war, and deceitfully ran as a "Peace Candidate" in November 1940. BTW, I noticed that many of the war-hawks who screeched that anyone who didn't support FDR was a "Nazi" - never picked up a rifle. They preferred to fight fascism from behind a typewriter or in the USA. We have a lot of the same type of Chicken-hawk today.

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Gorque
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 06 Dec 2019 18:16

rcocean wrote:
06 Dec 2019 17:44
You guys must be paid to put all this "Research" on this thread. Copying from Newspapers? What a lot of effort over nothing.
I'm heartened to read of your approval of our efforts. :lol:

Iggy time!

Ken S.
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Ken S. » 06 Dec 2019 22:29

rcocean wrote:
06 Dec 2019 17:44
You guys must be paid to put all this "Research" on this thread. Copying from Newspapers? What a lot of effort over nothing.
How I waste my time is my business.
Fred Trump had zero to do with the Bund or the KKK
Based on what?

LineDoggie
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by LineDoggie » 07 Dec 2019 02:14

Ken S. wrote:
06 Dec 2019 22:29
rcocean wrote:
06 Dec 2019 17:44
You guys must be paid to put all this "Research" on this thread. Copying from Newspapers? What a lot of effort over nothing.
How I waste my time is my business.
Fred Trump had zero to do with the Bund or the KKK
Based on what?
based on you not having any evidence he did
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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Gorque
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 07 Dec 2019 18:28

Link to Fred Trump's FBI files: https://vault.fbi.gov/fred-c.-trump/Fre ... %2001/view

& to Trump Management Company: https://vault.fbi.gov/trump-management-company

and a pdf of decision United States v Fred Trump, Donald Trump and, Trump Management Company: https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/pu ... 4-0034.pdf

Delta Tank
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Delta Tank » 09 Dec 2019 02:12

To all,

Trumps mother was born in Scotland. So, did any of her family members commit an act against English rule?? If so, is that relevant to the current a President? If your dad was a drunk and a bum, is that reflection on his children?? This is a stupid thread, but like one poster wrote, how you waste your time is your business!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anne_MacLeod_Trump

Mike

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Gorque
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 09 Dec 2019 09:05

Delta Tank wrote:
09 Dec 2019 02:12
To all,

Trumps mother was born in Scotland. So, did any of her family members commit an act against English rule?? If so, is that relevant to the current a President? If your dad was a drunk and a bum, is that reflection on his children?? This is a stupid thread, but like one poster wrote, how you waste your time is your business!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Anne_MacLeod_Trump

Mike
Hi Mike:

Thank you for adding to this thread, unfortunately this thread, as per the thread title, is dedicated to Fred Trump and his attitudes in the 1930s and not about his wife and/or their possible plotting against the government of England. If you wish to discuss that topic, then kindly start another thread on that subject.

I also take note that you deem:
This is a stupid thread
What, may I ask, does the quoted remark add to the discussion? Are you hoping that it will cease further posts? Is this not a historical discussion forum?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Dec 2019 13:30

Hi rcocean,

You post, "But maybe your very interested in trivia." Maybe. Is this problem?

You post, "Fred Trump had zero to do with the Bund". That is the point of the question and, so far, you are undoubtedly correct as no evidence has been presented here to say otherwise.

You also post, that the Bund did not have ".....anything to do with the USA being isolationist before WW 2." This is questionable as it and the German Embassy were trying hard to advance the isolationist cause behind the scenes. However, as you imply, they were pushing at something of an open door because initially US public opinion was heavily isolationist, so their impact was probably limited. (The British were far more effective at subsequently shifting US public opinion in the other direction).

In writing "I noticed that many of the war-hawks who screeched that anyone who didn't support FDR was a "Nazi" - never picked up a rifle. They preferred to fight fascism from behind a typewriter or in the USA. We have a lot of the same type of Chicken-hawk today." you are opening up a can of worms, given that the current president, like most rich kids, avoided picking up a rifle, or even manning a Pentagon typewriter, during the Vietnam War, Fred, while too young for WWI and too old from WWII, made good money from WWII, like most competent capitalists, and the grandfather apparently evaded the draft in Bavaria by going to the USA. But we won't go there.

Cheers,

Sid.

ljadw
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by ljadw » 09 Dec 2019 14:51

Most draftees did no go to Vietnam and those who went to Vietnam were mostly volunteers .Besides : most potential draftees were not called up .

ljadw
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by ljadw » 09 Dec 2019 14:54

rcocean wrote:
06 Dec 2019 17:44
You guys must be paid to put all this "Research" on this thread. Copying from Newspapers? What a lot of effort over nothing.

But maybe your very interested in trivia. Fred Trump had zero to do with the Bund or the KKK, and the neither organization had anything to do with the USA being isolationist before WW 2. Both were fringe groups with few members. But - like today - the Left back then wanted people to think they were massively important, like the Communists.

Gallup Polls consistently showed 75-80% of Americans were "isolationist" and wanted to stay out of ww2. That's why FDR never asked for declaration of war, and deceitfully ran as a "Peace Candidate" in November 1940. BTW, I noticed that many of the war-hawks who screeched that anyone who didn't support FDR was a "Nazi" - never picked up a rifle. They preferred to fight fascism from behind a typewriter or in the USA. We have a lot of the same type of Chicken-hawk today.
Gallup Polls are not reliable : 3 years ago Gallup Polls consistently showed that the person who would lose the elections,would win the elections . And, isolationism did not prevent Lend Lease becoming effective in March 1941 .

Sid Guttridge
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 11 Dec 2019 12:16

Hi ljadw,

Three years ago polls got right who would win a majority of the popular vote: Hilary Clinton. What they did not get right was that this would not result in a majority of electoral college votes for her.

In early 1940 American public opinion was anecdotally overwhelmingly isolationist, and the polls picked up on this. They also picked up on the gradual shift in public opinion over the next two years.

The passing of the Lease-Lend Act was a purely political decision and not subject to confirmation by resort to public opinion.

And, if we are not to rely on the opinion polls of the time, what better empirical measures of public opinion would you suggest?

And where did Fred Trump stand in all this? Was he initially an isolationist? He certainly later threw his business behind the war effort later, but where were his sentiments in early 1940?

One wonders if Fred's attitudes of the time may have influenced the governance of his son today, which has seen US presence and prestige begin a retreat from the post-WWII and post Cold War settlements the US has upheld since 1945?

Cheers,

Sid.

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