Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

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Texas Jäger
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Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Texas Jäger » 02 Dec 2020 00:02

I can find U.S. Division and Army level losses for the entire war but not broken down by campaign or month. Does anyone know where I can find this information?

Thanks.

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Texas Jäger
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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Texas Jäger » 02 Dec 2020 00:06

I'm particularly interested in the losses suffered by V Corps and VII Corps during the Ardennes Offensive.

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by LineDoggie » 02 Dec 2020 23:43

Texas Jäger wrote:
02 Dec 2020 00:02
I can find U.S. Division and Army level losses for the entire war but not broken down by campaign or month. Does anyone know where I can find this information?

Thanks.
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/re ... .html#duty
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Richard Anderson
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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Dec 2020 01:40

Texas Jäger wrote:
02 Dec 2020 00:06
I'm particularly interested in the losses suffered by V Corps and VII Corps during the Ardennes Offensive.
The first problem is that except for the Corps Troops, casualties for corps were not collected by the corps in the U.S. Army. The reports went from division or non-divisional unit to army and then from army to army group, where they were collected and recorded every evening. So you can access the 12th Army Group casualty records at NARA...except that is difficult right now. :(

The second problem is the figures in those records are not reconciled and can be incomplete. Quite frequently they were estimated for many units, which the return-to-duty of MIA and other reclassification of casualties (some dead turned out to be wounded and other discrepancies) tends to mess with the figures. In other cases, for one reason or another, loss reports were not transmitted - in this case it is especially true for units of the VIII Corps and some others.

OCMH in the early 1950s did a number of research projects associated with the writing of the Green Books, of which Royce Thompson's Measuring the Intensity of Fighting in Certain Large-Scale Engagements (19 March 1954) is especially relevant to your question, but it might be even harder to find a copy...and it does not give daily figures, just totals for the campaign by division.

When we compiled the daily casualties for the ACSDB for the Army we had to reconcile the figures to be consistent in the database, since strength, minus casualties, plus replacements and returned-to-duty usually did not mathematically work out, again highlighting the nature of the problem.

Are you asking out of idle interest or is there a special reason you want the figures for?
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Texas Jäger
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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Texas Jäger » 04 Dec 2020 22:47

Thanks for the response Richard. It is idle interest.

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Richard Anderson » 05 Dec 2020 00:13

Texas Jäger wrote:
04 Dec 2020 22:47
Thanks for the response Richard. It is idle interest.
Okay. If there is a particular corps or division on a specific date I might be able to help if you need.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Texas Jäger
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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Texas Jäger » 08 Dec 2020 20:21

Richard Anderson wrote:
05 Dec 2020 00:13
Texas Jäger wrote:
04 Dec 2020 22:47
Thanks for the response Richard. It is idle interest.
Okay. If there is a particular corps or division on a specific date I might be able to help if you need.
Any Division on the Northern Shoulder of the Bulge, like for example the 30th during the fighting around Stavelot, I've seen losses for the 2nd and 99th over the first week but thats it (from secondary sources of course), unlike the fighting around Bastogne where there is a lot more data. I've wanted to compare the intensity of fighting between the North and South Shoulders for quite some time, on the German side I suppose there are the 10 day casualty reports but they might be unreliable. There is a similar situation to the First Army Divisions (after being placed under 21st Army Group) with the units of Seventh Army in Alsace, hard for me to find much detail at all. I have seen the official casualties report LineDoggie posted before, but that gives Divisional losses for the entire war only broken down by theater.

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Richard Anderson » 08 Dec 2020 22:31

30th ID total casualties (all causes):

18 December - 14
19 December - 105
20 December - 362
21 December - 240
22 December - 99
23 December - 108
24 December - 204
25 December - 130

I'm afraid I don't have the breakdowns by type of casualty anymore. I do have some data I put together for the Attrition Handbook on the casualties in the 99th ID if you are interested I could dig out.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Texas Jäger » 13 Dec 2020 03:21

Richard Anderson wrote:
08 Dec 2020 22:31
30th ID total casualties (all causes):

18 December - 14
19 December - 105
20 December - 362
21 December - 240
22 December - 99
23 December - 108
24 December - 204
25 December - 130

I'm afraid I don't have the breakdowns by type of casualty anymore. I do have some data I put together for the Attrition Handbook on the casualties in the 99th ID if you are interested I could dig out.
Sure, thanks Richard

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 14 Dec 2020 01:59

It occurs to me if the individual medical records are still available, those can be sorted into relevant date, & with a bit more research units, & location. Thats doable, right Rich? 8O

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Richard Anderson » 14 Dec 2020 07:08

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
14 Dec 2020 01:59
It occurs to me if the individual medical records are still available, those can be sorted into relevant date, & with a bit more research units, & location. Thats doable, right Rich? 8O
Uh, that's a hard no Carl.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 14 Dec 2020 21:00

Had a customer who did something like that with OSHA records. Got a big enough Grant to devise a sort program and stuff x years of accident records into a sort. Her budget exceeded the cost of the her house. Throw enough money at a problem...

Do those Army medical records still exist?

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Re: Divisional/Corps/Army losses by month and campaign?

Post by Lethl215 » 02 Jan 2021 04:53

Try 12th Army Group AAR Vol II, start at p.73 on for estimates.

https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital ... 116/rec/16

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