Reising smg

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uros k
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Reising smg

Post by uros k » 28 Jun 2003 23:10

In what theatres were the reising smg used?

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 28 Jun 2003 23:29

Mainly Pacific, I think. However some Lend-Lease (to USSR) weapons ended up to Finnish front, a few being captured.

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Post by daveh » 29 Jun 2003 11:07

see

http://www.stormpages.com/garyjkennedy/wwwboard/52.html

for a discussion on the Reisings smg. The breif notes below are taken from there

Used by the USMC.

It performed very well on the firing range and was issued for Guadacanal. Actual combat showed that the complicated mechanism was difficult to strip for cleaning, clogged easily and, as it operated by venting gases, was very easily foiled by differences in cartridge power. Reportedly many were abandoned or simply thrown away by Marines.

The Reising was never again issued to frontline troops. It did equip security guards in stateside installations who could lavish more attention on their tetchy weapons than was possible during a jungle firefight.

Just over 10 thousand of both versions were delivered, mainly to the Navy, but some were exported to Canada and USSR.

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 11 Aug 2003 23:04

Some captured SMG´s.
From the book " Sotilaskäsiaseet Suomessa 1918-1988 III" (Military Small Arms in Finland...) by Markku Palokangas.

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von thoma
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Re: Reising smg

Post by von thoma » 31 Dec 2021 06:15

Was it rejected by U.S. Army tests ?
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

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Hans1906
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Re: Reising smg

Post by Hans1906 » 31 Dec 2021 13:07

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, the American military recognized a major shortage of submachine guns and infantry rifles. The available numbers of proven models such as the Thompson-MP or the M1 Garand, which had only been introduced in 1936, were not nearly sufficient to equip the mobilized troops. Thus, in addition to weapons that had already been used in the previous war, new developments were incorporated into the equipment at short notice. The Reising MPi was not patented until 1940, but was used by United States Marine Corps soldiers in combat in the Pacific War as early as 1942. There, the Reising earned a poor reputation. The weapon was not up to the conditions of the tropical climate. The less-than-robust breech mechanism frequently failed, and moisture and salt degraded the metal parts. The Marines tried to arm themselves with other models wherever they could get hold of them. There were also instances when soldiers simply threw away the submachine gun in anger to force rearming with more reliable weapons. The model was soon withdrawn from theaters of war and given to police agencies, the National Guard, and the Coast Guard. Remaining stocks went to the Office of Strategic Services or were shipped to Canada as well as to the Allied Soviet Union.
Source: Reising M50 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reising_M50

Interesting topic, the first time, I read something about this Submachine Gun, you learn something new every other day... :o


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Re: Reising smg

Post by ROLAND1369 » 02 Jan 2022 19:05

Aside from the limited availability of the thompson the marines adopted the Reising Mode 55 with a folding stock for their 3 Parachute Battalions. There was no folding stock version of the Thompson and while the stock could be removed it was not a workable combat option. The compactness of a folded stock was an advantage in jumping such a weapon. For the same reason, among others, they adopted the Johnson LMG M1941 due to it quick change dismountable barrel. The use of a folding stock allows the compactness of a short weapon with the increased accuracy of a stocked weapon. Just for informational reasons the Marine Parachutists jumped with the reising Model 55 SMG strapped across the top of their reserve parachute held in place by the elastic pack closing bands. Due to its increased length the Army Airborne jumped with their Thompson SMGs strapped to their side parallel to their body. The compactness problem was later solved by the introduction of the 45 Caliber M3 SMG with its sliding wire stock. Incidently the design of the Reising's folding stock is probibly the poorest and least stable of all production SMGs. It is certainly the poorist I have ever used. The Reising's unreliability was summed up by LTC "Beast" Kruliacs order to the 2nd Marine Parachute Battalion on their departure from Guadalcanal to "throw all of their Reisings into the river"
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Re: Reising smg

Post by Hans1906 » 03 Jan 2022 12:03

Incidently the design of the Reising's folding stock is probibly the poorest and least stable of all production SMGs. It is certainly the poorist I have ever used. The Reising's unreliability was summed up by LTC "Beast" Kruliacs order to the 2nd Marine Parachute Battalion on their departure from Guadalcanal to "throw all of their Reisings into the river"
Thank you very much Roland for your personal comments, very interesting to read, like always.

I am thinking of the folding stock of the M2 and the M3 models in the semi, and fully automatic version. (M1 carbine)
But in a comparison to the "spindly" folding stock of the Reising models, unfortunately incomprehensible to me, why this weapon could be put into service at all ?


Hans
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Re: Reising smg

Post by ROLAND1369 » 03 Jan 2022 20:03

As was explained earlier there was a shortage of the thompson SMG as well as a shortage of production facilities for the Thompson. There was a need for all weapons produced to fill the units being formed. In the case of the Model 55 there was a perceived need for a compact weapon for a specialized need IE The Marine Paratroops. There had been no combat test under tropical conditions to identify these specific shortcomings. Finally there were many aplications where the maintenance shortcomings would not be applicable. The weapon was perfectly suitable for the Armories on warships, police and plant guard use, the armament of home guard militia within the US. All of these uses released more militarily effective Thompsons for overseas combat use. The same shortages of the highly effective M1 Garand forced the issue of Bolt action M1903 springfield and M 1917 Enfield bolt action weapons to second line and support troops as substitutes. In short in wartime even a bad weapon is better than no weapon.

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Re: Reising smg

Post by LineDoggie » 06 Jan 2022 00:47

Hans1906 wrote:
03 Jan 2022 12:03


I am thinking of the folding stock of the M2 and the M3 models in the semi, and fully automatic version. (M1 carbine)
But in a comparison to the "spindly" folding stock of the Reising models, unfortunately incomprehensible to me, why this weapon could be put into service at all ?


Hans
M3 was fixed stock unless you mean the M3 SMG, not the M3 Carbine (IR Sniper).

During a war marginal automatic weapon can be better than a perfect one IF you can have it when needed. H&R had the facilities to begin immediate production of the M50/M55/M60(Semi Auto only and longer barrel for police & plant guards) variants

The Thompsons (M1921, M1928, M1928A1) by then were in great demand by the US Military, UK and Commonwealth, France, and even for Soviet lend lease. They came as standard vehicle equipment with the M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 Light and M3, M4 Medium tanks, M10 TD.

The M3 Greasegun was not yet finalized for testing, production and the Hyde M2 was not yet being tested at Aberdeen Proving Grounds(And never did get issued) and the Marlin/United Defense M42 in 9mm was in very limited production in 42 (Most went to the OSS).

The USMC wanted a SMG then and there, so the marginal Reising was better than nothing.

Just as the bulk of USMC infantry in 1941-42 made do with Bolt Action M1903 rifles until the USMC decided the M1 Garand would fulfill their needs for accuracy and reliability, the Reising made do until replaced by the M1 Carbine and TSMG's, M3 SMG's.
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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Reising smg

Post by T. A. Gardner » 06 Jan 2022 02:55

The US Coast Guard was issued a good number of Reising SMG for use in the US as shown here:

Image

Image
(Note also the use of the old Colt "Potato digger" machineguns)

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Re: Reising smg

Post by Hans1906 » 06 Jan 2022 15:15

I thank you for all further hints, which I read with much interest. Some of the submachine guns you mentioned are completely unknown to me until today.
For this I simply lack the English-language literature, in the older German-language literature available to me, some models find no mention at all, unfortunately.

Very good, please keep it up.


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EKB
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Re: Reising smg

Post by EKB » 08 Jan 2022 07:50

LineDoggie wrote:
06 Jan 2022 00:47

The Thompsons (M1921, M1928, M1928A1) by then were in great demand by the US Military, UK and Commonwealth, France, and even for Soviet lend lease. They came as standard vehicle equipment with the M3, M3A1, M3A3, M5 Light and M3, M4 Medium tanks, M10 TD.
CHART Small Arms TD Battalions.jpg
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