Was Truman an Anti-Semite?

[R.M. Schultz]

I must say that this discussion has been very helpful to me, and I have come to the following conclusions:

1] It does not really matter what a man writes to himself or to his intimates as this is a private matter.

2] It does matter what a man says in public, as this can inflame passions and influence events.

3] Ultimately a man is to be judged on his actions and their consequences, not his words.

As Truman was instrumental in founding the state of Israel and desegregated the armed forces, I would have to say that his actions show him not to be a racist.

[hauptmannn]

Ultimately a man is to be judged on his actions and their consequences, not his words.

If we were to judge Hitler only on his ACTIONS he would not come off very badly. He never personally killed a man in his life, let alone beat up a Jew.

Indeed it was not his actions but his words, written and oral, which ultimately resulted in the Holocaust.

An action is rooted in an idea.

Think about it.

[R.M. Schultz]

Ultimately a man is to be judged on his actions and their consequences, not his words.

If we were to judge Hitler only on his ACTIONS he would not come off very badly. He never personally killed a man in his life, let alone beat up a Jew. Indeed it was not his actions but his words, written and oral, which ultimately resulted in the Holocaust. An action is rooted in an idea. Think about it.

\I was very careful to say actions and their consequences for in this I would include making public speeches, publishing books and newspapers, issuing orders to followers. I would distinguish this from "mere words" which would be things like letters to family, careless talk over beer and pretzels, repeating a harmless joke that relies on racist stereotypes. People often "let off steam" in such private conversation and unless this is backed up with action we should probably allow it remain private.

I think the contrast here between Hitler and Truman is quite marked. All of Hitler's public speech, his books and publications all are laced with the most virulent sort of racism, which undoubtedly primed many Germans for genocidal action, and then his orders directly inaugurated a genocidal war. Truman's public speech was always circumspect, and his actions included recognizing the state of Israel and desegregating the Army, hardly the actions of a racist. I think we can allow him a private slur or two, just as we can allow him his bourbon and branch-water.

[hauptmannn]

Should we or not hold the President of the United States, having the highest and most powerful office in the world to a higher standard than allowing him 'a private slur or two'.

I am not the President so is it acceptable for me to make one or two racial slurs. Is it acceptable for me to state that Jews control everything including this forum.
Why is that some people ( in this case Truman) find it so difficult to act decently. Its not that difficult and most people do. And why not reproach him.

It's not like most Americans at the time even uttered the words he did in spite of the prevalence of racism.

I think of Wilhelm Marr, the ideological father of German anti-semitic racism. He ended up marrying a Jewish women and repented. Yet the damage was done. His ideology porvided Hitler with something to develop. Hitler and Marr's anti-semitism differ greatly in their intensity from Truman's (although Marr did repent) but in the latter's case there is still a price to pay. Today, David Irving is having a blast quoting Truman as another proof of how dreadful Jews really are. Truman hated em too. See everyone hates Jews. See its not me (Irving says). Truman being a man of prominence can now be added to the pantheon of the great men who realised what a curse Jews are. For the average guy, Truman's words are an embarrasment; for neo-nazis, anti-semites its a blast and strenghtens their cause. Spooky thought: Who is say that I am not a covert NS you know what activist slapping an anti-semitic label on everyone thereby fuelling anti-semitism - using Truman as a tool. Who is to say?


As for the famous executive order and the support of Israel as an argument against T's anti-semitism its a convincing argument certainly. Problem is I think of many others including that other anti-semite Nixon who had a Jew Kissinger as advisor. Stretch out a hand and call them motherfuckers in private.

Its the basis of politics. Does American support for Israel stem from philo-semitism or self interest. Did not Hitler also overlook the fact that Heydrich and Milch had Jewish ancestry, not to mention the more than 100,000 Jews and part Jews in the Armed Forces. Did he not also reach out his hand and collaborate with Zionists. Sure the degree is different but the principle remains the same.

As for the exec order, one word really comes to mind - inevitable. Truman did not really implement a great racial revolution. It was inevitable. Society and the world changed drastically at the time. Had his exec order occured before the war it would have been a much bigger deal. To me its largely of symbolic importance and it just happened to be him at the time.

Should we then dismiss T's statements. Not if we want to compare him with the truly great men or women of history.

I would judge a man not so much from what he does in public (above all a politician) than what he really thinks in private. Let us remeber that the whole Truman diary has not yet been exposed. There may be a consistent anti-semitic pattern worse than we think.

Could it also be that Truman's ability to think racist thoughts also influenced him vis-a-vis the Japanese. Perhaps he did not have a high racial esteem of them and was thereby influenced to drop the bomb on these 'ant-like' "people'. That's the potential danger of a casual attitude with racism.

Just my thoughts my dear Mr. Schulz.

[ChristopherPerrien]

There is a huge difference between racism and "thinking racially". Most people on this planet at times think racially, which is what Truman's public or private diary comments reflect. The probem I see is that some people automactically seeing some hint of "thinking racially" will label and put that person in with the worst of the Nazi's and Nazi ideology.

To me it is about the same as labelling people who get "speeding tickets"
the same as the worst serial killers. Does this make sense?


P.S. addition: I forgot about the old "55 mph" slogan, "Speed Kills", so perhaps we should round up all the speeders with all the serial kilers
and fry them too.

[hauptmannn]

There is a huge difference between racism and "thinking racially".:

I am happy to see someone jump in for once.

Just a Question:

can "thinking racially" produce anti-semitic writing?


(p.s. I definitely don't think serial killers should be exempted from speeding tickets

[ChristopherPerrien]

Just a Question:

can "thinking racially" produce anti-semitic writing?

Of course, it can also produce pro-semetic (new word!) writing.

The real problem is the labeling words used (anti-semite and racism)
autmactically consign people into a group that includes the worst.

Like I said speeders and serial-killers are all criminals, but we don't talk about them at the same time and this argument exposes the fallacy of such labeling and I suppose the limited vocabulary of the English language when in comes to race/racial and thoughts versus actions issue.

As to Truman, obviously he was "pro-semite" (Israel is here because of him) perhaps he was because he just wanted to "rid of of them" using this as actual reason he created Israel, I leave it up to others to judge him.

I think Truman was an American, Was he so naive to think all the Jews would move to Israel, or was he just joking about the whole idea?
He was joking because because Truman like all master politicians realizes the value of and respects special interests. And at the time I bet you it got him (votes?) from many sides of this issue. Remember "Dewey beats Truman".

Truman was a "good egg", I would link a song from the 1970's if I could remember the name "Where are you Harry Truman?". We could use a decisive guy like that today.