M8 HMC - which units used them?

[Geoffrey Cooke]

I know it was in the TOE of assault gun troops and other recon related units in the armored divisions and in the cavalry, but what about the tank destroy battalions, airborne and infantry divisions etc?

[yantaylor]

Hi Geoffery, If you mean the 75mm M8 HMC, then these where located in the Assault Gun Troop in Cavalry Recce Squadrons in US Armoured Divisions.

Ian

[Gary Kennedy]

Their official slots were quite limited. From the late 1943 to 1945 organisations it was along these lines.

In the Assault Gun Troops of Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadrons, as already noted above, with six in a separate Squadron and eight in one serving with an Armored Division.

Three in the Assault Gun Platoon of the handful of separate Light Tank Battalions. (I've never found a copy of the actual 1943 or 1944 T/O of these units but secondary sources indicate this was the case).

Three in the Assault Gun Platoon of the Armored Infantry Battalion (Sep 1943 T/O), replaced by M4 105-mm tanks on paper at least beginning Sep 1944.

Officially, I think that was it, I've never seen any reference to them being deployed by Tank Destroyer units, towed or SP, and certainly not Airborne Divisions. There are two examples for US Infantry Divisions, both serving in the Pacific theatre.

77th Infantry Division mentions use of the "75mm How M8" in the Cannon Company of its Infantry Regiments during operations in the PTO. 81st Infantry Division also lists the M8 with its three Infantry Regiments during operations on Anguar in Sep 1944. There was an official T/O for the Cannon Company in which six SP M7 105-mm howitzers replaced the usual six towed 105-mm howitzers, which to be best of my knowledge was only used in the PTO (there's at least one thread from me on that subject somewhere on the forum). The 81st Division report indicates they had the 75-mm M8 in lieu of the M7 for Anguar at least.

Gary

[Richard Anderson]

Gary hit the nail on the head. They were also in the Assault Gun Company of the Armored Regiment in the 2d and 3d Armored Division, which retained the March 1942 T/O&E with modifications until the end of the war.

"One major item missing from the “heavy” division was the 105mm howitzer-armed medium tank; the March 1942 T/O&E employed the 75mm HMC M8 in its “Assault Gun” Company. The issue was first raised by Eisenhower on 15 July, when he requested permission to replace 18 of the M8 in each of the divisions with the Medium Tank M4 105mm. However, it was not until 22 October before the 2d and 3d Armored Division each were authorized nine of the 105mm-armed tanks. The 2d Armored Division G-4 recorded receiving four that same day and the remaining five on 24 October. By late November 1944, the theater authorization was increased to 27. The 2d Armored Division received 24 by 15 December. It is unclear exactly how they were distributed (probably nine to each armored and armored infantry regiment), but the 75mm HMC M8 was also retained for a while (as of 29 November 2d Armored Division had 20 and 3d Armored Division had 30). On 25 January, an increase to 33 each of the Medium Tank M4 (105mm) and 75mm HMC M8 was authorized by the War Department. By 5 February, 2d AD had 33 Medium Tank M4-series 105mm and only 9 75mm HMC M8, while 3d AD had 33 and 21 respectively. As of 11 May 1945, 2d Armored Division had 42 M4-series 105mm and no 75mm HMC M8, while the 3d AD had 33 and 19 respectively. Complicating matters was the planned replacement of the M8 75mm in all the units of the armored division, except the Mechanized Cavalry Squadron, under T/O&E 17 of 24 January 1945 " (From my draft of For Purpose of Service Test)

Note however the 24 January 1945 Armored Division T/O&E altered things again and specifically addressed the 2d and 3d Armored Division..

"The number of M8 75mm Howitzer Motor Carriages in the division was reduced from 17 to 8, with only the assault gun troop in the cavalry reconnaissance squadron retaining them. As replacements, the number of M4 105mm Assault Guns increased from 18 to 27 as they replaced the M8 75mm HMC in the Assault Gun Platoon of the Armored Infantry Battalion. For the first time the division was also specifically authorized 18 tank dozer blades. The 2d and 3d Armored Division officially retained 15 M8 75mm HMC each they had been originally allocated. They were also each authorized 27 M4 105mm Assault Guns and 12 dozer blades as a theater allocation." (From my draft of For Purpose of Service Test)

[Geoffrey Cooke]

77th Infantry Division mentions use of the "75mm How M8" in the Cannon Company of its Infantry Regiments during operations in the PTO.

Thank you.

The ones used on Leyte by the 77th ID seem to be well photographed.

[yantaylor]

There was an official T/O for the Cannon Company in which six SP M7 105-mm howitzers replaced the usual six towed 105-mm howitzers, which to be best of my knowledge was only used in the PTO.
Gary

Hi Gary, where they M7 HMC (Priests) or M8 HMCs, I was not certain if it was a typo or not, unusual for M7 but you are more on the money than me.

Ian

[Gary Kennedy]

Hi Ian,

There was a T/O, ref 7-14S of 26 Feb 1944, 'Infantry Cannon Company, 105-mm Howitzer, Self-propelled', which specified the 105-mm howitzer motor carriage, rather than the towed 105-mm more usually found in such units. As noted in the above thread though, the 75-mm armed M8 was used in the same slot by certain units in the Pacific.

Gary