The True Legacy Of FDR- The Truth About WW 2

[Lawrence]

The main point I agree with Mike about is the general perception for the war. We Americans are fond of bringing Hitler and the Holocaust to justify a lot. I remembered before this current war, a lot of supporters argued that 'If we had went to war against Hitler in 1933, then we would have saved six million innocent people!'

A lot of people don't know that the Jewish suffering was not used to stir up widespread support for the war. The majority of American soldiers fighting in Europe were fighting the Germans because they declared war on them. When the camps were liberated, the common saying was 'We may not know what we're fighting for; but at least we know what we're fighting against.' To an extent, this was always true. During the war, many government officials wanted to make sure that Americans weren't sending their sons to die 'just to save some Jews'. One could argue that many Americans don't want to send their kids to die to in Iraq for generally the same reason.

With that credo, you can argue that war is never justified unless it is in self-defense, as Americans viewed it in World War II. On the other side of the spectrum, many people argue that war is always justified if the end result is favorable. These are the same people that were for the Iraq War, often citing that if Hitler had been stopped in 1933, he wouldn't have dragged the world into war; hence the comparison to Saddam.
But the main point of that I agree with is the perception after the war. The Holocaust was rarely mentioned in movies and other media. In fact, many Americans learned the details of the Holocaust during the Eichmann trial of 1962.

Interesting, if you look at the movies made during the war, and after the war, there is a stark difference. The Germans and the Japanese are not the primary villians anymore, but rather nameless enemies and the vessels for the war. The villains tend to be other soldiers, with conflict and hostility toward the hero. Case in point; 'From here to Eternity' and even 'Bridge over the River Kwai'. Also, the book 'Slaughterhouse Five', while not an anti-war novel IMO, looked at the war, as well as the entire 20th century, as if it was a truly bizarre novelty, WWII included, as if the war didn't make a whole lot of sense.

Now I'm not saying that either philosphy is always, 100 percent right in regards as to when to go to war. However, in World War II, the majority of Americans felt it as a self defense action, with protecting ourselves
first, then the rest of the world.

[Polynikes]

Mike's post is unashameably pro-Bush, anti liberal.

The world was different in the pre-TV age. It was a lot less sensitive to public opinion so whereas a country could engage in carpet bombing of cities in enemy countries, today the military spends billions to make sure the absolute minimum of civilian casualties are caused.

Rooseveldt's internment of Japanese-Americans was wrong - it was motivated by an idea that the Japanese was somehow less civilised than the European-Americans. Italian-Americans and German-Americans were expected to be American first. Not so the Japanese-American. It was racism at a time when the US military stored blood from blacks and whites separately.

Black soldiers were also actively disuaded from leading roles in the military & navy.

The land of the free didn't embrace native Americans or non-whites at that time.

To judge Rooseveldt by 21st century standards is to do him a dis-service. You might as well point out that Lincoln's government denied the vote to women from voting and Washington owned slaves.
You can however make a judgement on the Patriot Act - a hateful piece of legislation that reduces what Bush claims to be trying to promte - freedom.
Then again "freedom" is a a quality that Bush and his fellow Republicans seem to claim a monopoly on and promte as a substitute for quality of life.

As pointed out, Rooseveldt's economic policies were brought in as US unemployment had reached record levels. You don't fix problems like that overnight. They say that WWII killed the New Deal - who knows. Keynesian economics had proved to be flawed but no-one knew that at the time. The USA was hardly alone in thinking they might work.

WWII was of great benefit to the USA - lots of foriegn money pouring in as well as taxpayers money and war bonds.

The war (apart from coming at a time when Hollowood was on the rise) was also more than any other war (except perhaps the Revolutionary War) seen as the clearest cut. No doubt about the cause and who the bad guys were.
Vietnam, Korea and the US Civil War struggle to gain the audience's support. Hollywood has no qualms about making the US army the bad guys in Westerns and Vietnam - but you struggle to think of an anti-US war movie set in WWII.

As for Churchill and Coventry. As pointed out it's bollocks. Even if Churchil DID know that Coventry was about to be attacked, there was precious little he could do about it. You can't evacuate a city - you would cause panic. What next? evacuate Sheffield, Birmingham, Southampton, Manchester?

Rooseveldt went to war against his country's wishes to save the world. Bush went to war in Iraq for personal glory & to promte US influence.

In short, Hitler needed to be removed from power at almost any cost.
Saddam (as far as the rest of the world goes) did not.

[Polynikes]

I suspect Mike is just being a provocateur here.....

Posting something outrageous and waiting to see if people will bite.

[Cantankerous]

FDR's decision to have African Americans form distinct combat units like the Tuskegee Airmen in World War II to tap into fears by African Americans in the Deep South that a Nazi victory would embolden the Ku Klux Klan and other hate groups to renew violence against African Americans, yet at the same time send Japanese Americans to internment camps in the western US, reminds me of Abraham Lincoln's double standard when it came to his treatment of nonwhites race whereby Lincoln himself helped end black slavery in the Deep South yet ordered the hanging of 38 Native Americans were hanged on December 26, 1862 in the wake of the Sioux Uprising of 1862. Although FDR knew that the New Deal wasn't going to end the Great Depression overnight, the mobilization of so many unemployed Americans to manufacture weapons of war following the US entry into WW2 provided FDR with a surprise miracle to end the Great Depression, because the more US workers entered the defense sector, the less employment there was in the US.

[OpanaPointer]

When FDR spoke to Gen. George Catlett Marshal about desegregation Marshall replied "the middle of a war is no place for a social experiment."

Anybody remember who it was that said women couldn't be combat troops?

[Carl Schwamberger]

Anybody remember who it was that said women couldn't be combat troops?


Four out of five Marines I worked with back in the 1970s and 1980s. Two out of three in 1990s. Desert Storm was where I saw a shift in attitudes. I think part of it was because a lot of loud mouthed macho men flaked out during DESERT SHIELD, before the first shot was fired.

[OpanaPointer]

Anybody remember who it was that said women couldn't be combat troops?


Four out of five Marines I worked with back in the 1970s and 1980s. Two out of three in 1990s. Desert Storm was where I saw a shift in attitudes. I think part of it was because a lot of loud mouthed macho men flaked out during DESERT SHIELD, before the first shot was fired.

I was just wondering if the Soviet lady snipers and the "Night Witches" counted?

[rcocean]

As been proven by the Gulf War and Iraq, women make the best fighters. If only we'd had 5-4 110 lbs. women in our Infantry in WW II the war would've ended much sooner.