U.S. P-38's Shoot Down 4 Russian Yakovlev Yaks

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Ezboard

U.S. P-38's Shoot Down 4 Russian Yakovlev Yaks

#1

Post by Ezboard » 30 Sep 2002, 18:58

Roland
New Member
Posts: 4
(10/17/01 1:50:36 am)
Reply U.S. P-38's Shoot Down 4 Russian Yakovlev Yaks
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Everyone Interested, I have found an interesting chapter in one of my books.

"..The first engagement occurred in early November 1944, over Yugoslavia. Russian ground forces had the Germans in retreat. The 15th Air Force was requested to provide close air support. Colonel C.T. "Curly" Edwinson's (now General; Ret.) 82nd Fighter Group operating from Foggia Italy, caught the mission. The Husky P-38's performance was so good that the Russians asked for a repeat support mission to be flown by the same group the following day. Again Edwinson led his three squadrons of P-38s across the Adriatic and down into the valleys of mountainous Yugoslavia. Unknown to Edwinson a crisis was in the making. The Russians had failed to advise Foggia that during the interval between the previous day's support mission and now, Russian Ground forces had advanced the battle line by 100 kilometers. Edwinson led the P-38's into the strafing attack that ripped first into the Germans then immediately into the Russians. The resulting devastation was both massive and effective. Caught in the strafing was a Russian staff car. It's occupant, a three star General, was killed, a victim of lack of communications and a close similarity between German and Russian Uniforms and vehicle color schemes. And with the P-38's speed these differences went unnoticed. A flight of Yaks were in the vicinity and the call went out for them to attack the P-38s still busy making strafing runs. Caught totally by suprise, Edwinson saw two of his aircraft being shot down. Instantly he signaled the squadron to disengage from ground attack and fight their way out of the valley. During a brief air battle that ensued Edwinson's P-38 pilots knocked down four of the Yaks and sent the remainder scurrying away into the haze. One of the four Yaks that really got it was the unlucky fellow whose course took him directly over the guns of a P-38 piloted by Bill Blurock who was in a stall condition and but a few yards under the Russian. A touch of the button and the Yak was literally ripped to shreds.

This incident over Yugoslavia gave the United States a 4-to-2 edge in the only known aerial combat between the two powers (the 1950 engagement involved North Korean Pilots). When advised that the situation was one of those unfortunate happening the bad communications sometimes foster, and after all if was the Russian who attacked the P-38's, the Russians promptly shot all those involved on their end and demanded the same to be done to Edwinson, the leader of the P-38's. "Curly" Edwinson was quietly and hastily re-assigned to a base out of Europe.

A Bad day for these particular Yaks should not be interpreted as a sign of their inferior equipment...not so. Its overall combat record is excellent. Edwinson had superior fighters and some of the finest pilots around. It was no contest even though the Russian Pilots entered the action with the advantage of suprise and at a fighting altitude of their choosing..." - Glenn B. Bavousett 'Combat Aircraft of World War II' 1989

My question to the forum is if anyone knows of any other such actions? What on the Ground? Like sometime during the meeting of East and West at the Elbe?

Danke


dan
Visitor
(10/17/01 1:57:27 am)
Reply Not sure
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Roland, thanks for the interesting post. Most of it rings true, except the Russian order to shoot everyone involved. This seems more like stereotyping and I'd like to see the reference.
Advancing an army facing stiff resistence 100 kliks in a day seems like alot, but stranger things have happened.

oleg
Visitor
(10/17/01 2:09:11 am)
Reply re
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Actually there more than one engagement = Kozhedub downed two P-51s who mistook him for someone else.

dan
Visitor
(10/17/01 2:38:33 am)
Reply Let's here more
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Details, my Slavic friend! Let's here more about what happened. You both have whetted our appetite.

Lars EP
Member
Posts: 28
(10/17/01 5:29:11 pm)
Reply Re: U.S. P-38's Shoot Down 4 Russian Yakovlev Yaks
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A good pilot will of course know how to us his plane to the best advantage. I don't know what kind of Yak's you are talking about, but most of the Yak's suffered from under-armament, typically they where armed with one 20 mm machinecannon and one or two 12,7 mm machineguns.

The P-38 was a very sturdy, and very well armed plane, even it lacked the maneuverbility of the Yak.

I'd like to hear details about Oleg's example.


Lars

oleg
Visitor
(10/17/01 5:56:17 pm)
Reply re
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In short: in April of 1945 while free-hunting in La-7 he saw American B-17 being harassed by pair of Me-109. He dived on the German planes and while attacking them was attacked by escorting P-51s who never saw La-7 before. He never saw P-51s as well so he thought he was attacked by another pair of Me-109s so he shot them first - wingman who jumped out than leader whose plane blew up in the air.This two victories were never added to his score.

Lars EP
Member
Posts: 31
(10/20/01 11:58:46 pm)
Reply Re: re
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The LAL-7 was serious bad news for anything. It's only drawback was a very limited range.

Lars

pdhinkle
Veteran Member
Posts: 630
(10/21/01 1:53:51 pm)
Reply U.S. P-38's Shoot Down 4 Russian Yakovlev Yaks
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In the April 1945 time frame, CINC of SHAEF (IKE) had to do something to stop these errors. They helped him make the decision not to go on to Berlin. He all ready had the Air forces mistaking one an other for the enemy, and would have had the same thing happen on the ground.
The German national Redoubt in the Alps was the reason the US forces moved in the south of Germany. They found nothing there!

Mad Jim
Visitor
(11/1/01 8:03:18 pm)
Reply soviet vs Us
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In the "Blonde Knight Of Germany" Erich Hartman reported a similar engagement over Rumania p51s vs soviet single engine fighters who were acting as escorts for pe2's (?) The Americans came out slightly ahead.

Ray the K
Visitor
(11/2/01 1:31:14 am)
Reply Soviet vs. US aircraft
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I believe the book _Stalin's Eagles_ discusses a friendly-fire incident between US P-38s and Soviet ground units, where a Soviet general officer was killed. The P-38s were jumped during the attack by Soviet aircraft, and several P-38s were shot down. The book has photos of several US documents, so this is not simply "Soviet propaganda".

Best,

Ray

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Cantankerous
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Re: U.S. P-38's Shoot Down 4 Russian Yakovlev Yaks

#2

Post by Cantankerous » 30 Apr 2023, 22:53

There's more info on the little-known aerial engagement over Niš, Yugoslavia, at this link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_battle_over_Ni%C5%A1


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