British Armoured Divisions

[Gary Kennedy]

Right, 22 Inf Bde later 22 Gds Bde served under these HQs from Feb41 to Nov41 (all info from Joslen);

HQ BTE 11Feb-16Feb41
6 Inf Div 17Feb-06Apr41
HQ WDF 11Apr-05Jun41
7 Armd Div 06Jun-08Jun41
4 Ind Div 08Jun-07Jul41
HQ WDF 03Jul-31Aug41
4 Ind Div 01Sep-12Nov41

22 Gds Bde then became 200 Gds Bde 14Jan42. The Bde did served with 1st Armd Div, from 05Jan-14Jun42, which I'll assume is out of the timescale you're looking at.

22 Armd Bde was under the following;

2 Armd Div 15Jan-05Oct40
WO control 05Oct-14Oct40
1 Armd Div 14Oct40-07Nov41
7 Armd Div 08Nov-22Nov41
13 Corps 23Nov41-23Jan42

From Sep39 to Sep42 22 Armd Bde field three armoured Yeomanry Regts;

2 RGH
3 CLY (Sharpshooters)
4 CLY

2 KRRC served as the Mot Bn from 23Nov40 to 08Aug41

Gary

[yantaylor]

Thanks Gary.

So did the 2 KRRC replace one of the Yeomanry regiments or did all four serve together.

Did this configuration keep together during all of the name changes?

Yan.

[Aber]

Armoured brigades had 3 tank battalions plus 1 infantry battalion.

For later changes in composition of 22nd Armoured Brigade Wikipedia has details.

[yantaylor]

I see that Wiki also has three different artillery regiments for the 2nd armoured division;

102nd Light Anti-Aircraft/Anti-Tank Regiment
2nd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery
12th Regiment Royal Horse Artillery

These are included with the divisions 2nd support group, but didn't the 2nd armoured have any other artillery regiments included in their divisional troops?
I am sure I saw the 104th regiment RHA (Essex Yeomanry) somewhere on line and this unit served with the 2nd armoured up to April 1941.

BTW: where in the UK was the 2nd armoured based after they were formed?

Yan.

[Aber]

The RHA units are field artillery regiments with 18 or 25 pdr gun/howitzers; the 102nd had a mixture of 2pdr anti-tank and 40mm AA; there were no other artillery units.

The 104th were with the armoured division in Africa.

Remember that the organisation of the British armoured divisions developed over time - initially they were too tank focussed with few other arms. The British were also flexible about juggling sub-units between different divisions. This can make it confusing to follow and OTL it confused the Germans too.

[Sheldrake]

Hi everyone.
I was reading a book last week titled "The Polar Bears, from Normandy to the relief of Holland with the 49th division" by Patrick Delaforce.
The divisions nick name [the polar bears] was a new to me because I didn't think the British had nick names for their divisions.

Did they have nick names for their armoured divisions too?

1st Armoured Division. "Rhinos"
2nd Armoured Division. - Not in existance long enough to earn one)
6th Armoured Division. "Mailed fist"
7th Armoured Division [maybe the desert rats].
8th Armoured Division.- Not in existance long enough to earn one)
9th Armoured Division. The Panda Division: punning title for a training formation
10th Armoured Division. - Originally the first cavalry division
42nd Armoured Division. (the old East Lancs division)
79th Armoured Division. Hobart's funnies or the funnies
Guards Armoured Division. Not sure if there was ever an offical nickname but the badge was the same as the Guards Division in WW1 the "all seeing eye". - the eye of providence under what looked like a drill cap... Possibly the original for the eye of Mordor

Thanks for any help.
Yan.

Not all of the nick names are official. The 51st (Highland Division) - symbol HD was origianlly known as "Harpers Duds" after their alleged poor performance and GOC's name and then "Highland Decorators" for the frequency of HD graffiti. The 4th Indian Division's "Red Kite" was known as the Red Shitehawk. The fire breathing lion(?) adopted by 7th field force and then 19 infantry brigade was known my many as the "Puking Panther".

The British Army did have nick names for some, but not all of their formations. Many of them are associated with the divisional patches. Some were formal and endorsed - or even thought up by senior officers- E.g. the Desert Rat was a conscious choice of the Jerboa as a symbol. GOC's like to think they are creating a team identity. Hobart also designed two more divisional signs. The 11th and 79th Armoured divisions all feature the Black Bull, the creature on the Hobart family crest. Mucking around with formation badges and other commanders' bright ideas tends to cost soldiers money as these non government issue items need to be purchased from the PRI...

More on formation badges here http://www.petergh.f2s.com/flashes.html

The formal names became part of two word exercise names. 3 Div's exercises were all "EX Iron ....." I recently took part in two exercises incorporating old division nick names 7th Infantry Brigade (Ex 7th Armd Bde) "EX Red Rat reflect " and 42 Brigade's "Ex Cassino Diamond" - based on the old East Lancs division's badge.

The 3rd Infantry Division claims to have been the Iron Division since the Peninsular - but like many British Army traditions it may be completely bogus and much more recent. Many were created in the First World War. Some of the nicknames were regional - 43 Wessex Wyverns and the 50th Tyne Tees The 49th Division was the "white rose" or West Riding division in 1914-18 because it was recruited from the territorial soldiers of West Riding of Yorkshire. They only became Polar Bears after garrisoning Iceland in 1940-42. Someone in Div HQ had too much time on their hands in Reykjavik.

Some had a sense of humour the British 9th Armoured Division adopted a Panda as a divisional symbol. just so they could claim to be the only British Panda Division.... da daaa!

[yantaylor]

Hi Sheldrake and thanks for the info.
I promised the other lads the results of my labour and here is what I have gathered on the 1st armoured division.

1st ARMOURED DIVISION

Formed:
3rd September 1939

Lineage:
Mobile Division (November 1937)

Garrison:
York

Service Record:
Great Britain
France
Egypt
Libya
Tunisia
Italy

Operations and Campaigns:
Battle of France
Western Desert Campaign
Operation Brevity
Operation Battle Axe
Operation Crusader
Battle of El Alamein
Tunisian Campaign
Battle of Tebaga Gap
Gothic Line
Battle of Coriano

Unit Structure 1939 to 1945

Divisional Staff
Commanding Officers:
Major General R. Evans (15th July 1938 to 24th September 1940)
Major General W. Norrie (24th September 1940 to 5th November 1941)
Major General H. Lumsden (5th November 1941 to 3rd January 1942)
Major General F. Messervy (3rd January to 12th February 1942)
Major General H. Lumsden (12th February to 19th July 1942)
Major General R. Briggs (21st August 1942 to 15th July 1943)
Major General A. Galloway (17th July 1943 to 14th August 1944)
Major General R. Hull (14th August 1944 to 24th November 1944)

Brigades:

2nd Light Armoured Brigade (3rd September 1939 to 14th April 1940)
Commander;
Brigadier R.L. McCreery (15th January to 14th April 1940)
10th Royal Hussars
2nd Dragoon Guards (Queen's Bays)
9th Queens Royal Lancers

2nd Armoured Brigade (14th April 1940 to 25th September 1944)
Commander;
Brigadier R.L. McCreery (14th April to 12th December 1940)
Brigadier R. Briggs (14th December 1940 to 20th August 1942)
Brigadier A.F. Fisher (20th August 1940 to 31st December 1943)
Brigadier R.W. Peake (31st December 1943 to 18th February 1944)
Brigadier G.W. Goodbody (18th February to 22nd September 1944)
Brigadier J.F.B. Combe 22nd September 1944 to 1945)
10th Royal Hussars
2nd Dragoon Guards
9th Queens Royal Lancers
1st Battalion Rifle Brigade
9th Battalion King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

1st Heavy Armoured Brigade (3rd September 1939 to 14th April 1940)
Commander;
Brigadier V.V. Pope
2nd Royal Tank Regiment
3rd Royal Tank Regiment
5th Royal Tank Regiment

3rd Armoured Brigade (14th April to 4th October 1940)
Commander;
Brigadier J.G. Crocker
2nd Royal Tank Regiment
3rd Royal Tank Regiment
5th Royal Tank Regiment

1st Support Group (3rd September 1939 to 11th February 1942)
Commander;
Brigadier F.E. Morgan
101st Antitank Regiment
101st Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment

22nd Armoured Brigade (14th April 1940 to 4th November 1941)
Commanders;
Brigadier J.T. Leslie (21st October 1939 to 26 July 1940)
Brigadier G. Dawes (26th July to 26th August 1940)
Brigadier A.R. Selby (26th August to 1st September 1940)
Brigadier I. D. Erskine (11th February 1941)
Lieutenant Colonel J. Moubray (5th October 1941)
Brigadier J.C.O. Marriott (20th October 1941)
2nd Royal Gloucestershire Hussars
2nd City of London Yeomanry
3rd City of London Yeomanry

200th Guards Brigade Group (12th January to 20th May 1942)
Commander;
Brigadier J.C.O. Marriott (14th January to 25th May 1942)
1st Battalion Durham Light Infantry (28th February to 23rd May 1941)
3rd Battalion Coldstream Guards (11th March 1941 to 20th June 1942)
9th Battalion Rifle Brigade (29th September 1941 to 4th June 1942)
2nd Battalion Scots Guards (28th February to 16th June 1942)
1st Battalion Buffs (7th June to 21st September 1941)

201st Guard Motor Brigade Group (21st May to 14th June 1942)
Commanders;
Brigadier J.C.O. Marriott (25th May to 17th June 1942)
Brigadier J.A. Johnson (17th June to 20th June 1942)
Brigadier J.A. Gascoigne (14th August 1942 to 13th November 1943)
Lieutenant W.H. Kingsmill (13th November to 27th November 1943)
Brigadier R.B.R. Colvin (27th November to 4th December 1943)
Lieutenant W.H. Kingsmill (4th December to 13th December 1943)
Brigadier R.B.R. Colvin (13th December 1943 to 4th January 1945)
Brigadier H.R. Norman (5th January to 31st August 1945)
3rd Battalion Coldstream Guards (25th August 1942 to 23rd June 1943 & 22nd July 1943 to 12th March 1944 & 1st April to 3rd August 1945)
2nd Battalion Scots Guards (25th August 1942 to 27th June 1943)
9th Battalion Rifle Brigade (1st September to 5th September 1942)
6th Battalion Grenadier Guards (7th October 1942 to 17th November 1944)
1st Battalion Irish Guards (3rd March 1944)
1st Battalion Welsh Guards (11th April to 3rd August 1945)

7th Motor Brigade (23rd September 1942 to 19th July 1943)
Commanders;
Brigadier T.J.B. Bosville
Brigadier M.D. Erskine (30th June to 20th July 1943)
7th Battalion Rifle Brigade
2nd Battalion Kings Royal Rifle Corps
Minefield Task-force

18th Lorried Infantry Brigade (20th July 1943 to 16th February 1944)
Commander;
Brigadier M.D. Erskine (20th July to 5th October 1943)
1st Battalion Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment)
2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own)
9th Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry - formerly the Queen's Own Yorkshire Dragoons
14th Battalion Sherwood Foresters
53rd Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery (Organised as Infantry)

18th Infantry Brigade (5th October 1943 to 16th February 1944 & 17th August 1944 to 28th October 1944)
Commanders;
Brigadier M.D. Erskine (20th July 1943 to 7th February 1944)
Lieutenant Colonel G.H.G. Smith-Dorrien (7th February to February 1944)
Brigadier M.D. Erskine (20th February to 27th October 1944)
Brigadier A.D. McKechnie (8th October to 27th August 1944)
Lieutenant Colonel J.S.H. Douglas (27th August to 18th December 1944)
14th Battalion Sherwood Foresters
1st Battalion Buffs (Royal East Kent Regiment)

Divisional Troops

Armoured Division Signals (Royal Corps of Signals)
1st Armoured Division Signals (3rd September 1939 to 17th December 1944)

Royal Artillery
2nd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (24th August 1942 to 26th September 1944)
4th Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (21st September 1942 to 25th October 1943)
11th Regiment Royal Horse Artillery (24th August 1942 to 26th September 1944)
60th Anti-Tank Regiment Royal Artillery (1st May 1944 to 26th September 1944)
76th Anti-Tank Regiment Royal Artillery (22nd September 1942 to 31st March 1944)
42nd Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment Royal Artillery (26th September 1942 to 5th October 1944)

Royal Engineers
1st Field Squadron RE (1st February 1940 to 4th February 1942 & 2nd September 1942 to 29th September 1944)
7th Field Squadron RE (23rd October 1940 to 19th March 1942 & 1st October 1942 to 20th August 1944)
627th Field Squadron RE (21st August 1944 to 29th September 1944)
1st Field Park Squadron RE (3rd July 1940 to 25th August 1944)
631st Field Park Squadron RE (26th August to 29th September 1944)
1st Field Park Troop RE (1st August to 2nd July 1940)
27th Bridging Troop RE (18th October 1943 to 25th August 1944)

Reconnaissance
12th Lancers (1st November 1940 to 12th May 1942 & 13th November 1942 to 6th April 1944)
1st The Royal Dragoons (12th April to 13th September 1942)
4th Hussars (23rd May to 25th September 1944)

[yantaylor]

Hi Aber, so the only two artillery regiments which served with the 2nd armoured, was the 102nd Northumberland Hussars AA/AT Regiment and the 104th Essex Yeomanry AT Regiment?

Yan.

[histan]

Information from Joslen - available from Fold3 [you may have to pay to join]

Information on brigades available from the same source.

Regards

John

[histan]

2nd Armoured Division

Regards

John

[yantaylor]

Thank you John.

[Aber]

Hi Aber, so the only two artillery regiments which served with the 2nd armoured, was the 102nd Northumberland Hussars AA/AT Regiment and the 104th Essex Yeomanry AT Regiment?

Yan.

The 104th was not anti-tank but a Royal Horse Artillery regiment - which means field artillery 25 pdr gun/howitzers.

Told you the British system was confusing.

[yantaylor]

It certainly is Aber, but I cannot find any reference to the 104th RHA serving with the 2nd armoured div.

[Gary Kennedy]

It was part of 2 Sp Gp (very briefly) from 26Mar41 to 04Apr41. Units under command 2 Sp Gp were;

RA units;

102 (NH) LAA/Atk Regt 01Mar40 to 06Feb41
12 RHA 19Apr40 to 07Aug40
2 RHA 11Jul40 to 25Feb41
102 (NH) Atk Regt 07Feb41 to 23Feb41
15 LAA Regt 09Feb41 to 21Feb41
104 RHA 26Mar41 to 04Apr 41

RE units (these moved from Sp Gp to Div Tps in June 1940);

3 Fd Sqn 01Mar40 to 09Jun40
142 Fd Pk Tp 30Mar40 to 09Jun40

Inf units;

1 Rangers 01Mar40 to 25Feb41
1 THR 01Mar40 to 19Feb41 and again 22Mar41 to 15May41

2 Sp Gp was part of 2 Armd Div 05Feb40 to 08Apr41, then departed to Cyrenaica Command and lastly GHQ MEF before being disbanded 18May41.

I'd recommend Joslen as well, I'd forgotten it was on Fold3. Also available as a download from MLRS books;

https://www.mlrsbooks.co.uk/bookstore/p ... em603.html

For the kind of info you're seeking it is truly indispensable.

Gary

[yantaylor]

Excellent Gary.
You don't know the commanders of the 2nd support group do you? I have been searching the net all morning and found nothing.

Ian.