RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
Anyone knows what a RAF squadron land unit part had for self protection? Vickers/Bren AAMG or any other?
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Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
I've never seen a WE for an RAF Squadron, other than this one example for a unit in the Far East for Nov42 -
http://www.rafcommands.com/reference/un ... -squadron/
It may well have looked different for other theatres and time periods, but nothing that looks like an organic ground defence element that I can see.
Gary
http://www.rafcommands.com/reference/un ... -squadron/
It may well have looked different for other theatres and time periods, but nothing that looks like an organic ground defence element that I can see.
Gary
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
The personnel of a squadron would normally be fully occupied with keeping the planes operational. Local defence of the airfield against air and ground attack would normally be the responsibility of RAF personnel permanently stationed there, with such assistance as the army could provide. They would use whatever was available, including aircraft guns on makeshift mounts and improvised armoured vehicles, or (for example) old Rolls-Royce armoured cars acquired by the RAF in the 1920s.
From 1942 defence of airfields became the responsibility of the RAF Regiment.
To quote a practical example, during the Battle of Britain no squadrons were stationed at RAF Lympne in Kent, but it was regularly used for emergency landings, refuelling, etc.
The RAF Care & Maintenance unit operating the airfield was about 250 strong; Flight Lieutenant D.H. Montgomery was the Station Commander, assisted by six or seven other officers, including a Code & Cypher Officer, Medical Officer, and two or three officers responsible for defence.
Of these 250 (or so) airmen, some 60 formed a "Defence Flight", all armed with rifles, and manning various machine guns, three 20 mm Hispano aircraft cannon (see picture), "Armadillo" trucks with concrete pillboxes on the load bed, etc.
The army contributed two 40 mm Bofors AA guns with crews, infantry in about company strength, and a couple of Vickers machine guns covering the airfield from a distance.
From 1942 defence of airfields became the responsibility of the RAF Regiment.
To quote a practical example, during the Battle of Britain no squadrons were stationed at RAF Lympne in Kent, but it was regularly used for emergency landings, refuelling, etc.
The RAF Care & Maintenance unit operating the airfield was about 250 strong; Flight Lieutenant D.H. Montgomery was the Station Commander, assisted by six or seven other officers, including a Code & Cypher Officer, Medical Officer, and two or three officers responsible for defence.
Of these 250 (or so) airmen, some 60 formed a "Defence Flight", all armed with rifles, and manning various machine guns, three 20 mm Hispano aircraft cannon (see picture), "Armadillo" trucks with concrete pillboxes on the load bed, etc.
The army contributed two 40 mm Bofors AA guns with crews, infantry in about company strength, and a couple of Vickers machine guns covering the airfield from a distance.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton
- Waleed Y. Majeed
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Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
Not sure if it has any relevance but one of the main duties of the Iraqi/Assyrian levies was to protect RAF bases in Iraq and they were under RAF control before, during and after WW2.
http://www.ishtartv.com/en/viewarticle,37601.html
waleed
http://www.ishtartv.com/en/viewarticle,37601.html
waleed
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
Very good inputs, indeed my question was more related to Middle East and what protection the squadrons that advance had by themselves. I am aware of RAF regiment and the RAF armored car companies.
The information about permanent airfields is also very good.
I found this interesting from Sheldrake links http://www.rafweb.org/Organsation/Regiment2.htm:
2721 Squadron
In April 1943, the squadron was operating as part of the 3rd Infantry Brigade and was allocated a sector of the line near Medjez el Bab. During the night of 20/21 April, the 25 pounder guns of the squadron succeeded in repelling a German armoured counter-attack.
So RAF squadron could get 25 pdr? typo for 2pdr?
2924 Squadron
Formed at Latakamia in Cyprus in May 1943, as a Field squadron equipped with 22 light tanks It took part in Operation 'Accolade' and then served at Castelrosso, Aleppo and Kabrit before moving to Italy in August 1944,
suppose old Vickers tankettes?
2918 Squadron
Formed at Benina in May 1943 as a Field squadron, it served at Shallufa, Hadera, Aleppo and Minnick before converting to the Light Anti-Aircraft role at Hadera for Operation 'Saturn'. The squadron disbanded in April 1944.
What was this Operation Saturn?
obviously Goggle search only shows the Soviet one.
The LAA squadrons seem to have had 12 Hispanos or AAMG anyone can confirm?
Hispanos were problematic since the round didn't self destruct. Also not reliable.
Field Squadrons seem to have from armored cars - 2nd RAF company changed in 1943 to Mk.1 GMC Light Reconnaissance Armoured Car but i don't know of others- 3in mortars, some guns.
The information about permanent airfields is also very good.
I found this interesting from Sheldrake links http://www.rafweb.org/Organsation/Regiment2.htm:
2721 Squadron
In April 1943, the squadron was operating as part of the 3rd Infantry Brigade and was allocated a sector of the line near Medjez el Bab. During the night of 20/21 April, the 25 pounder guns of the squadron succeeded in repelling a German armoured counter-attack.
So RAF squadron could get 25 pdr? typo for 2pdr?
2924 Squadron
Formed at Latakamia in Cyprus in May 1943, as a Field squadron equipped with 22 light tanks It took part in Operation 'Accolade' and then served at Castelrosso, Aleppo and Kabrit before moving to Italy in August 1944,
suppose old Vickers tankettes?
2918 Squadron
Formed at Benina in May 1943 as a Field squadron, it served at Shallufa, Hadera, Aleppo and Minnick before converting to the Light Anti-Aircraft role at Hadera for Operation 'Saturn'. The squadron disbanded in April 1944.
What was this Operation Saturn?
obviously Goggle search only shows the Soviet one.
The LAA squadrons seem to have had 12 Hispanos or AAMG anyone can confirm?
Hispanos were problematic since the round didn't self destruct. Also not reliable.
Field Squadrons seem to have from armored cars - 2nd RAF company changed in 1943 to Mk.1 GMC Light Reconnaissance Armoured Car but i don't know of others- 3in mortars, some guns.
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
Colonel Salmon’s energy and ability raised the standards of
training and organisation throughout his squadrons and flights and
he did not hesitate to improve their combat efficiency by unorthodox
means – including the acquisition of 25 pounder field guns from the
Army to improve the firepower of the support flights of his field
squadrons.
When, after losing a number of field guns to the Germans,
the Army sought to reclaim its artillery from the Regiment, Colonel
Salmon refused the offer of 40mm Bofors guns in exchange, but
accepted six-pounder anti-tank guns instead – which the field
squadrons were to find increasingly useful as the war progressed.
Page 84
training and organisation throughout his squadrons and flights and
he did not hesitate to improve their combat efficiency by unorthodox
means – including the acquisition of 25 pounder field guns from the
Army to improve the firepower of the support flights of his field
squadrons.
When, after losing a number of field guns to the Germans,
the Army sought to reclaim its artillery from the Regiment, Colonel
Salmon refused the offer of 40mm Bofors guns in exchange, but
accepted six-pounder anti-tank guns instead – which the field
squadrons were to find increasingly useful as the war progressed.
Page 84
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
The RAF Regiment had a relatively short operational rationale. They were formed after Crete when RAF airfields were inadequately defended and the airmen untrained in ground warfare.
By the end of 1944 there were no real ground threats to airfields ion the West and much of the manpower was directed to the army as infantry reinforcements. The RAF Regiments finest hour was in Burma where their soldiers were flown into a newly captured airfield in light aircraft. The japanse controlled the airfield at night the Brits by day.
By the end of 1944 there were no real ground threats to airfields ion the West and much of the manpower was directed to the army as infantry reinforcements. The RAF Regiments finest hour was in Burma where their soldiers were flown into a newly captured airfield in light aircraft. The japanse controlled the airfield at night the Brits by day.
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
Read the book link i posted. It seems to have been bigger.
And it continues today.
And it continues today.
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
The second picture certainly shows the Hispano, but what guns are they in the first picture? Strangely the gunner is the same.Knouterer wrote: The RAF Care & Maintenance unit operating the airfield was about 250 strong; Flight Lieutenant D.H. Montgomery was the Station Commander, assisted by six or seven other officers, including a Code & Cypher Officer, Medical Officer, and two or three officers responsible for defence.
Of these 250 (or so) airmen, some 60 formed a "Defence Flight", all armed with rifles, and manning various machine guns, three 20 mm Hispano aircraft cannon (see picture), "Armadillo" trucks with concrete pillboxes on the load bed, etc.
Re: RAF squadron land unit part for protection?
The machine guns on the quadruple mount in the first picture are either .303 Lewis Mk III (surplus after the introduction of the Vickers K as an observer/rear gunner weapon) or the American version of same, in .30-06 (.300 to the British) calibre. A large number of the latter were purchased in June 1940, many of which were converted to ground guns by adding a shoulder stock and a fixed "battle sight" (but no bipod).
It seems both airmen in the pictures are the same. I suppose the official photographer just grabbed the first two he came across and asked them to pose.
It seems both airmen in the pictures are the same. I suppose the official photographer just grabbed the first two he came across and asked them to pose.
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"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton