British fighters in BoB - Total?

Discussions on all aspects of the The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth during the Inter-War era and Second World War. Hosted by Andy H
gebhk
Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by gebhk » 09 Jun 2023 21:51

Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I am failing to find the answer. Quite likely because the subject is well out of my sandpit and I am not looking in the right places.

How many British/allied fighter aircraft took part in the Battle of Britain? By that I don't mean on any particular day, but as a sum ie: starting numbers + replacements.

Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

User avatar
Sheldrake
Member
Posts: 3560
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 17:14
Location: London

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by Sheldrake » 10 Jun 2023 00:32

The information you are looking for is in these sources

The Official History of the RASF in WW2./ Volume 1 chapter 6 http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/U ... -I-6.html

RAF Air Historical Branch Campaign Narrative https://www.raf.mod.uk/our-organisation ... f-britain/

There are some complications to your simple question...

RAF replacements were not just new aircraft supplied from storage. They also included damaged aircraft repaired by the RAF and civilian repair organisation./

Are you including Blenheim night fighters in your total?

gebhk
Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by gebhk » 11 Jun 2023 14:24

Thanks Sheldrake, much apreciated.

My plan was to include all aircraft used as fighters - including Boulton Paul Defiants, Westland Whirlwinds etc, but not retreads to avoid double-counting. It is probably best to get all the data first and then decide what to include/exclude and on what basis. It's what researchers call 'establishing inclusion/exclusion criteria' and what the rest of us call 'cooking the books to make sure we get the answer we want'.

Thanks again
K

Leros87
Member
Posts: 99
Joined: 17 Apr 2016 00:35
Location: Kent

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by Leros87 » 12 Jun 2023 12:47

Don’t forget the fleet air arm as well

gebhk
Member
Posts: 2516
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by gebhk » 13 Jun 2023 10:52

Indeed

LineDoggie
Member
Posts: 1181
Joined: 03 Oct 2008 20:06

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by LineDoggie » 13 Jun 2023 19:32

Leros87 wrote:
12 Jun 2023 12:47
Don’t forget the fleet air arm as well
NAS806 Skua and Roc's had some difficulties over dunkirk when attacked by RAF

apparently blue jobs not used to the grey camo topsides and light grey fuselages looked similar to Luftwaffe camo, entire section shot down
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

EwenS
Member
Posts: 402
Joined: 04 May 2020 11:37
Location: Scotland

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by EwenS » 16 Jun 2023 03:37

The Battle of Britain lasted from 10 July to 31 Oct 1940.

By the time it started 806 had embarked on the brand new HMS Illustrious to work up in the West Indies. It then left for the Med on her at the end of Aug 1940 having converted to Fulmar I. So it played no part in the BoB.

Two FAA squadrons are credited with participating in the BoB. 804 was based at Hatston in the Orkneys to protect Scapa Flow. During this period it flew a mix of aircraft including Sea Gladiator and the first Grumman Martlets to arrive in the U.K. The second squadron was 808 which first formed on Fulmars in July 1940 at Worthy Down in Hampshire. It then spent some time in the north of Scotland before embarking in Ark Royal in Sept.

In addition other FAA pilots were loaned to the RAF and flew in RAF squadrons during the BoB.

https://www.key.aero/article/unsung-her ... %203%2C000.

Knouterer
Member
Posts: 1640
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 17:19

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by Knouterer » 29 Jun 2023 07:51

According to Overy's history of the BoB (p. 34), between July and October 161 fighters, including 72 Hurricanes but no Spitfires, were sent to the Middle East. So those should be deducted from the totals delivered.

Other bits of data:

Holmes, Hurricane I vs Bf 110 (Osprey): 1,715 Hurricanes flew with 36 squadrons during the BoB (10 July-31 Oct.)

From Baughen, The RAF in the Battle of France and the BoB, a table showing the numbers delivered - which is not necessarily the same as numbers produced - in 1940. Crosses designate "number of packs arriving": many American aircraft were not assembled until (much) later. * designates aircraft built as trainers, that mostly concerns the Fairey Battles, many of which were also used for target towing by this time.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Knouterer
Member
Posts: 1640
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 17:19

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by Knouterer » 29 Jun 2023 08:17

It seems that the fighter versions of the Blenheim were no longer in production by mid-1940, which is logical as the Beaufighter was far superior. Nevertheless, four squadrons equipped with the Blenheim IF and Airborne Intercept (AI) radar served as night fighters, and four Blenheim IVF squadrons served with Coastal Command.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

Knouterer
Member
Posts: 1640
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 17:19

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by Knouterer » 05 Aug 2023 16:57

Interesting overview of RAF aircraft strength as of 17 May 1940, when the fighting in France and Flanders was still in full swing, from C.G. Wynne, Stopping Hitler. An Official Account of how Britain planned to defend itself in the Second World War, Frontline Books, 2017 (original edition 1948). Besides the 120 or so Hurricanes and 15 Gladiators in or returning from France, 18 Hurricanes and 16 Gladiators are listed (on the next page) as returning from Norway.
Note the large numbers of aircraft in reserve "not immediately available to fly", in particular Ansons and Battles.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"The true spirit of conversation consists in building on another man's observation, not overturning it." Edward George Bulwer-Lytton

MikeMeech
Member
Posts: 52
Joined: 28 Mar 2021 10:12
Location: Essex, England

Re: British fighters in BoB - Total?

Post by MikeMeech » 08 Aug 2023 20:53

gebhk wrote:
09 Jun 2023 21:51
Apologies if this is a stupid question, but I am failing to find the answer. Quite likely because the subject is well out of my sandpit and I am not looking in the right places.

How many British/allied fighter aircraft took part in the Battle of Britain? By that I don't mean on any particular day, but as a sum ie: starting numbers + replacements.

Any suggestion would be much appreciated.
Hi
Michael Bowyer's 'Aircraft for the Few' has the following info:
Image_20230808_0001.jpg
Image_20230808_0002.jpg
Mike
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45”