RN vessels as Floating Fortresses against Seelowe

[Andy H]

Hi

I recently came across this passage in a thesis:-

Warships that were incapable of escaping out to sea were to be
provisioned for at least seven days and moored in the Sound to defend
Plymouth against a frontal attack from the sea. HMS Adventure (four 4.7"
guns and Pom-Poms), HMS Esperance Bay (seven 6", two 3" guns) and HMS Isas
(four 4.7" and two 0.5" guns) were all designated as floating fortresses in
September 1940. Other vessels that could not be employed as floating
batteries were prepared for sinking in positions that would prevent access
to the docks and basins.

The information seems to originate within ADM199/1201 Immobilization of Ports. Dunbar-Nasmith, 7 September 1940. Not having direct access to this file, can anyone shed any further light on what other 'floating fortresses' were envisaged?

Regards

Andy H

[phylo_roadking]

Andy, I've occasionally seen literary references to "monitors" - perhaps referring to these???

I;m also puzzled by the names - do you mean "HMS" Esperance Bay F67, the Armed Merchant Cruiser???

[Ironmachine]

It seems so. The "seven 6", two 3" guns" matches the armament on board F 67.

[Andy H]

Andy, I've occasionally seen literary references to "monitors" - perhaps referring to these???

I;m also puzzled by the names - do you mean "HMS" Esperance Bay F67, the Armed Merchant Cruiser???

Hi Phylo

Negative as far as I'm aware on the monitor angle. My reading of this is that is was so ordered that any naval ship in a unfit state to sail (for whatever reason) was to be used as a 'floating fortress' as an additional defence asset against the percieved German invasion. Obviously with hindsight the chances of Plymouth being involved were nil in the intial landings, but it would be interesting to see what ports that did fall within the Seelowe landing zone, had in the way of 'floating fortres' assets. Obviously these assets could change depending on the nature of there intial inability to sail.

Yes, as Ironmachine has stated, this was the AMC Esperance Bay

Regards

Andy H

[phylo_roadking]

Andy - if you can get your hands on a copy of Lavery it would be worth a read. I 'm not aware that this was an across-the-board policy; he does a whole section on the trials and tribulations and sheer f*ck-ups involved in every single major port being prepared for invasion; it looks like each port O.C. worked independently and there was a HUGE number of variations, bright ideas, complete wastes of time....and elements that would actually have HINDERED the defenders! Strangely - this however is ONE element he doesn't mention - which for him as basically an RN historian would be strange.

[phylo_roadking]

Esperance Bay seems to have been flitting about all over the place! She was stationed in Halifax as a convoy escort until July 2nd when she was sent to Southampton for a refit...does the invasion blockship thing...then is back on convoy escort by October 28th! That's a fast refit.

[Vesper]

Hi all,

Wasn't the Adventure a minelayer? I think my grandfather served aboard her.

~Vesper

[verdenpark]

Going by the stated armament, H.M.S. Adventure could have been an A class destroyer from the late 1920's. They were quite an innovation at the time, introducing the 4.7" Mk.IX Q.F. gun. Many of the A - I class destroyers where converted to minelayers by removing A and Y guns, torpedos, and having a fantail fitted to launch the 60 mines carried.

[Ironmachine]

No, it was not an A class destroyer (no A class destroyer was named Adventure). HMS Adventure was a minelayer cruiser launched in 1924:
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hmsadventure.htm

[Andy H]

Esperance Bay seems to have been flitting about all over the place! She was stationed in Halifax as a convoy escort until July 2nd when she was sent to Southampton for a refit...does the invasion blockship thing...then is back on convoy escort by October 28th! That's a fast refit.

Hi Phylo

The last convoy I have for E.Bay is HX047 which arrived in Liverpool on June 17th 1940, but the E.Bay left the convoy on the 15th, which would have been about right for heading to a southern port. The next time I see her listed is for SL054 on November 25th 1940. So a slightly shorter timeframe than you have.

Regards

Andy H

PS: It seemed that the E.Bay may have recieved some damage around July 14th whilst in Plymouth but have scant details at present, so maybe this delayed any refit work-Do you have any details on what this refit entailed?

[Andy H]

Well one thing leads to another. I found that a Lt-Cdr Harold Close was KIA on July 14th 1940 whilst onboard the E.Bay-Have yet been unable to find if he was the Captian at the time. This then let on to a possible air raid whilst in port, hence my statement above.

However I have found out the following:

On Page number 185 this document http://www.defence.gov.au/sydneyii/EXH/EXH.138.0111.pdf
lit ists the E.Bay as having £5million pounds worth of Gold aboard and leaving Southampton July 13th.

On this site:- http://worldwar2daybyday.blogspot.com/2 ... -1940.html

It states:-

British armed merchant cruiser HMS Esperance Bay leaves Plymouth at 12.50 PM carrying ten million pounds in gold. 100 miles West, she is bombed (7 dead) but is able to return to Plymouth

and

Armed merchant cruiser ESPERANCE BAY, carrying ten million pounds in gold, was bombed and badly damaged shortly after leaving England at 1250 in 49-30N, 6-40W, one hundred miles west of Land's End.
Lt Cdr H. Close RNR, and six ratings were killed.
Destroyer VANOC and Canadian destroyer RESTIGOUCHE escorted the merchant cruiser. Dutch tug ZWARTE ZEE was sent.
Destroyer VANOC and tug ZWARTE ZEE was reassigned when it was found the armed merchant cruiser could proceed on her own to Plymouth with the gold

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKWW2-4007-20JUL01.htm

So was the refit if that is what was, was it for the transportation of Gold and possible extra defence measures therein

Regards

Andy H

[Andy H]

Another poster in another Forum posted this:-

According to R.A. Burt's 'British Battleships of World War 1', 'in June 1940, she (HMS Centurion) was rearmed with a miscellaneous collection of guns for the anti-invasion forces...'.

This vessel spent most of the war at Portsmouth, so a good candidate for a 'Floating Fortress'!

Regards

Andy H

[phylo_roadking]

so maybe this delayed any refit work-Do you have any details on what this refit entailed?

No, just lots of hints that this is why she departed the Halifax escort list.

So was the refit if that is what was, was it for the transportation of Gold and possible extra defence measures therein

Or is "refit" a conflation of very limited commercial shipping info - and actually refers to the damage repair AFTER that incident???

[Tsofian]

What is the full citation for the Lavery book?

Thank you

Andy - if you can get your hands on a copy of Lavery it would be worth a read. I 'm not aware that this was an across-the-board policy; he does a whole section on the trials and tribulations and sheer f*ck-ups involved in every single major port being prepared for invasion; it looks like each port O.C. worked independently and there was a HUGE number of variations, bright ideas, complete wastes of time....and elements that would actually have HINDERED the defenders! Strangely - this however is ONE element he doesn't mention - which for him as basically an RN historian would be strange.

[sitalkes]

Brian Lavery, We Shall Fight on the Beaches https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shall-Fight-Be ... 1844861015