BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

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Claudio_C
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BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 08 Jan 2013 20:46

Hello
I'm continuing to investigate on British artillery in WW2 ... Last time I read a strange info in two book wrotten by (I hope) important autor: Ian V.Hogg - British and American artillery of WW2 and T.Gander - Heavy artillery of WWII.

In both books, when the autor speak of the 6in Gun Mk.19 is possible read "...were used in France ... and, to a lesser degree, in the Middle East..." or "... Somehow a few saw action in North Africa ..."
Unfortunately I don't have sources, book or internet, for this gun ...
Someone know other info on this issue?!? There are photo of this gun in North Africa ?!?
Thanks in advance for every info ...

Claudio C.

mariandavid
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by mariandavid » 09 Jan 2013 04:16

That is a very good question - and a puzzling one. The 6" howitzer of WW1 saw much use in the Middle East and later in Burma. But as for the 6" gun - I can find no traces of it in land service after France 1940, though however it was used by coast regiments in Malta, Haifa and Alexandria (note that RN and Army 6"guns were freely used depending on whether fixed or movable was needed). Much later 6" guns were officially used by the two British coast defence regiments sent to Italy after its surrender - though it is suggested that in-place Italian 152mm guns were used instead.

Sorry that I can find out nothing else/

David Hughes

nuyt
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by nuyt » 09 Jan 2013 22:31


Claudio_C
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 10 Jan 2013 08:04

Post by nuyt » Yesterday, 23:31
http://www.amazon.com/Tobruk-Ballantine ... B0006CFVMO
?!? ... Sorry I don't understand ... ?!? What you this that in this book I can find info ?!?
That is a very good question - and a puzzling one. The 6" howitzer of WW1 saw much use in the Middle East and later in Burma. But as for the 6" gun - I can find no traces of it in land service after France 1940, though however it was used by coast regiments in Malta, Haifa and Alexandria (note that RN and Army 6"guns were freely used depending on whether fixed or movable was needed). Much later 6" guns were officially used by the two British coast defence regiments sent to Italy after its surrender - though it is suggested that in-place Italian 152mm guns were used instead.

Sorry that I can find out nothing else/

David Hughes
Thanks David ... maybe it is a good start point for research :idea: ... Then you think that the possible employ of these guns in North Afrika aren't as field gun but are as coastal defence ... Someone have info in this way ?!? Or other info on the field use ?!?

Regards

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 10 Jan 2013 16:27

Claudio_C wrote:
Post by nuyt » Yesterday, 23:31
http://www.amazon.com/Tobruk-Ballantine ... B0006CFVMO
?!? ... Sorry I don't understand ... ?!? What you this that in this book I can find info ?!?
Claudio, not wishing to speak for Nuyt but I take it that he means you to look at the picture on the front cover. Is it not of the gun about which you are asking ?
Alan

mariandavid
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by mariandavid » 10 Jan 2013 18:42

I am not an expert at identifying guns - but I think that is a British 60pdr. Did look up the heavier guns used by the gunners of the 9th Australian Division during the siege of Tobruk and they were the British 4.5" howitzer and 60pdr gun, and the Italian 100mm and 149mm guns. I think the carriage is too wide for the latter hence my estimate (guess is a much better word!) that the picture is of a 60pdr.

David Hughes

Claudio_C
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 10 Jan 2013 19:33

... Thanks mariandavid ... I think the same thing ... In my research I just found the same picture that in on the book cover ... Here it is
Image

And here there are two photo of the BL 6in gun Mk.XIX (or Mk.19) on which I ask info. Both are taken fro IWM on line collection
Image

Image

I believe that is simply clear that the dimension are completely different, the wheel (as the modern tyre as the old steel wheel) are different ... and so on ... For this reason, Alan I immediately think that nuty would not refer the image, but on the text of the Amazon book ...
On the othe hand if somebody demonstrate that I'm wrong ... I ask imediately excuse ...

Well ... know onebody something on the employ of the 6in gun in North Afrika ?!?

Thanks in advance

nuyt
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by nuyt » 10 Jan 2013 21:00

Here I am :)
You are right. It's a 60pdr, I mistakenly thought it was a 6 inch. Was in a hurry and just published the link. I remembered that book, which I guess was once one of my first mil hist books when I was a kid. Still have it, it almost comes apart :)

Claudio_C
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 11 Jan 2013 00:42

No problem nuyt ... I understand your mistake ... Many time I do ugual mistake too ...

Please ... Now all come back on the original question ...
British Artilley use the 6in Mk.XIX as field gun in North Africa ?!? Who can answer?!?

Good night ...

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David W
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by David W » 13 Jan 2013 12:14

I've never seen a photo of one in North Africa, nor any text claiming that they were present. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong!

Claudio_C
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 13 Jan 2013 14:46

David
Also I never see a photo of this gun in North Africa, and for this reason I post this question.

For the text sorry but you are wrong. As I say on my first post, there are two book from, for what I know, authoritative authors, where is possible read that some of these gun are emploied in North Africa (or Middle east) ...

Ok I hope that someone will solve these impasse ... Maybe looking on the history of the Artillery regiment employ in North Africa, also, as suggest David Hughes, in coastal defence rule ...

Thanks in advance ...

Claudio C.

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David W
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by David W » 13 Jan 2013 16:25

Claudio. I did not mean to imply that your sources did not exist, merely that I had never seen a reference myself.
Best wishes, David.

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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by mariandavid » 13 Jan 2013 16:31

I finally found what the two authors may have been referring to when they said 'used in action'!

On May 20th 1941 the Germans invaded Crete. Part of the garrison at Suda Bay was the 15th Coast Regiment, Royal Artillery and it was equipped with four 4" guns, two 12 pdr guns and also - wait for it - in its A Battery four 6" guns . This was a mobile, not a fixed coast regiment, so it is safe to assume that its guns were likely to have been the Army not the Navy model.

Claudio_C
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 13 Jan 2013 23:34

Great mariandavid
... Maybe you solve the question ... Where you found this info?!? ... There are also photo ?!? Please let me know ...

Many time ago, on this forum, I look one photo of a 6in gun barrel on a carriage ... now I don't remember where and I don't remember which version... but maybe this is the evidence that we were looking for ... Now I start to research this and after we descuss again ...

Thanks

Claudio_C
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Re: BL 6in gun Mk.19 in North Africa ?!?

Post by Claudio_C » 14 Jan 2013 09:49

Hello

mariandavid this morning I found the post that I spak yestarday evening ... here it is
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=180793
Here, Clive Mortimore, in a post of 8 Aug. 2011 write on this gun
Mk 24 coast gun had a range of 24,500 yards (22.6 Km) and there was a semi mobile mounting for this gun the "Arrol-Withers Mobile Platform" ... There was evidence of a few of them being sent to Crete. A photo of a captured 6 inch coast gun barrel on Crete appeared on this forum not long ago. http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1582927
In the link that Clive report there is the photo of this barrel ... Than, maybe, the 15th Coast Regiment, Royal Artillery, employ this gun and no Mk.XIX :(
I also read that the Mk.24 gun is also reported in Hoggs book, but I can't search other info on this book till I will return in my house, next weekend :(

We return at start point ...

PS. In the same post I read of a mysterious book KFG D50/5 ... What is it?!? There are also some broken link to some page of this book on our 6in Mk.19 posted by EPOCH3... Someone have this image?!? Can share another time with us?!?

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