Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the war.

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wm
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Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the war.

Post by wm » 14 Aug 2020 22:33

27 December 1945
Played golf today with Joe Kennedy [Joseph P. Kennedy, who was Roosevelt's Ambassador to Great Britain in the years immediately before the war]. I asked him about his conversations with Roosevelt and Neville Chamberlain from 1938 on.
He said Chamberlain's position in 1938 was that England had nothing with which to fight and that she could not risk going to war with Hitler.
Kennedy's view: That Hitler would have fought Russia without any later conflict with England if it had not been for Bullitt's [William C. Bullitt, then Ambassador to France] urging on Roosevelt in the summer of 1939 that the Germans must be faced down about Poland; neither the French nor the British would have made Poland a cause of war if it had not been for the constant needling from Washington.

Bullitt, he said, kept telling Roosevelt that the Germans wouldn't fight, Kennedy that they would, and that they would overrun Europe. Chamberlain, he says, stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the war.
In his telephone conversation with Roosevelt in the summer of 1939 the President kept telling him to put some iron up Chamberlain's backside. Kennedy's response always was that putting iron up his backside did no good unless the British had some iron with which to fight, and they did not....

What Kennedy told me in this conversation jibes substantially with the remarks Clarence Dillon had made to me already, to the general effect that Roosevelt had asked him in some manner to communicate privately with the British to the end that Chamberlain should have greater firmness in his dealings with Germany.
The Forrestal Diaries by James Forrestal (yes, that fricking Forrestal)

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by Andy H » 15 Aug 2020 19:15

Hi WM

It would have been beneficial if you'd have given us some POV about the above yourself or asked a question regarding it!

Whilst I cant with any authority deny the veracity of JP Kennedys comments, his well known biases and publicity seeking character
would certainly taint any such testimony and maybe to the point annihilation.

Regards

Andy H

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by wm » 15 Aug 2020 22:04

I don't know. They say that guy Kennedy wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
But here he, one of the most important politicians in 1940, looks like a regular moron with that "neither the French nor the British."
He was there all the time, he had to know the truth.
Not to mention, pre-war Britain was still a super-power, Roosevelt wouldn't be able able to pressure her in any meaningful way.

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by stg 44 » 01 Jan 2023 20:14

wm wrote:
15 Aug 2020 22:04
I don't know. They say that guy Kennedy wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
But here he, one of the most important politicians in 1940, looks like a regular moron with that "neither the French nor the British."
He was there all the time, he had to know the truth.
Not to mention, pre-war Britain was still a super-power, Roosevelt wouldn't be able able to pressure her in any meaningful way.
What makes you say he wasn't sharp?

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by David Martin » 04 Feb 2024 20:56

The first thing to note is that this is the report from the diary of America's first Secretary of Defense, James Forrestal. Forrestal was Secretary of the Navy at the time of the diary entry. It was a private, candid, man-to-man conversation. Joseph P. Kennedy, the father of future President John F. Kennedy, was FDR's Ambassador to Great Britain and was widely regarded as a very shrewd person, indeed. He was in a position to know what he was talking about, and there is no reason to believe that he was not relaying what he had been told by Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain. Clarence Dillon, who happened to be Jewish, was the owner of Dillon, Reed, Inc., the Wall Street investment banking firm of which Forrestal had been president before joining the wartime FDR government. Dillon, Reed had substantial business connections in Europe, including Germany. The quote comes from pp. 121-122 of the published, severely edited, version of Forrestal's diaries by Walter Millis and E.S. Duffield by Viking Press in 1951, two years after Forrestal's death from a fall from a 16th floor window of the Bethesda Naval Hospital (The Navy in its official report concluded that the fall caused his death but did not say what caused the fall.). I have a short version of this passage in a footnote on page 90 of my recent book, "The Assassination of James Forrestal, 2nd edition". The anonymous "Cornell Simpson" talks about Forrestal's diaries at considerable length in his 1966 book, "The Death of James Forrestal." That book is now quite rare, but Christians for Truth has put up a full PDF version online.

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by wm » 05 Feb 2024 00:15

Didn't he write in his dispatches during the Battle of Britain that the British would be defeated? That could affect his place in the drawer.

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by Steve » 06 Feb 2024 02:58

Taken from a biography of Chamberlain – Chamberlain And Appeasement by R.A.C. Parker page 301.
We are told that Chamberlain “habitually spoke with freedom” with Kennedy. However, after Munich when Roosevelt wanted to communicate with Chamberlain he would bypass the State Dept. and Kennedy. Kennedy was UK ambassador because he was a large party donor he was not a discreet career diplomat. Roosevelt would speak to Arthur Murray, a Scottish friend who passed his remarks on to Chamberlain. In December 1938 Murray told Chamberlain “that he wished the Prime Minister to feel that he had, insofar as he, the President, was able to achieve it “the industrial resources of the American nation behind him in the event of war with the dictatorships.”. Murray also explained Roosevelt’s ideas on ways to “outwit the neutrality law”.

“America and the world Jews had forced England into the war.” Chamberlain does not come across as anti Semitic. His Secretary of State for War Hore-Belisha was Jewish. In a letter to his sister on November 13 1938 he referred to various matters to do with Germany and “horrifying things like the pogroms”. Quote is taken from The Impact of Hitler by Maurice Cowling page 203.

There is no evidence that “needling” from Roosevelt played any part in Chamberlain’s decisions. Chamberlain thought that America had been ineffective against Japan so there was not much chance it would do anything in Europe. He was aware that American entry into the war could lead to American domination of the British Empire. He wrote to his sister in January 1940 “I don’t want the Americans to fight for us – we should have to pay to dearly for that if they had a right to be in on the peace terms”. Quote is taken from Neville Chamberlain by David Dutton page 166.

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Re: Played golf today with Joe Kennedy. Chamberlain stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the w

Post by wm » 06 Feb 2024 03:24

Steve wrote:
06 Feb 2024 02:58
There is no evidence that “needling” from Roosevelt played any part in Chamberlain’s decisions.
What about this needling? It seems real enough. If he could do it to the Czechs why not to the British?
Amid all the nervous anticipation, the president calmly worked on his response to a letter Franklin D. Roosevelt had sent to him and the Fuhrer. [...]
Benes was disappointed that Roosevelt had sent identical texts to Prague and Berlin, thus implying moral equivalence between the respective causes of the Third Reich and Czechoslovakia.
Roosevelt's plea that the conflict should not be solved by force was fine, but Czechoslovakia was not proposing to attack Germany.
It was the Fuhrer who threatened to use violence to seize the Sudetenland and maybe more. Benes felt bitter about being put on the same level with Hitler.
Later, be would describe Roosevelt's intervention in the crisis as a stab in the back and the "last heavy blow."

The president also complained that Roosevelt "even ordered for himself [similar] statements from twenty-one South American republics."
There are additional records of interventions by diplomatic representatives of Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Iraq, Nicaragua, Panama, Peru, and Venezuela.
They contained the same message for President Benes: Mr. President, please find a peaceful solution.

Czechoslovakia Between Stalin and Hitler: The Diplomacy of Edvard Beneš in the 1930s by Igor Lukes

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