Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

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AETIUS 1980
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 17 Sep 2021 13:29

Yes that seems fair to me. This is the narrow gauge railway line serving since 1892-1893 the stations of Caen St Pierre, Benouville, Ouistreham and a succession of stops to Luc sur mer. It will be decommissioned at the end of 1944.
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by EKB » 18 Sep 2021 22:17

...

Were these buildings significant landmarks/targets?

Churchill tank Sword Beach (IWM B 5096) copy.jpg
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 19 Sep 2021 01:14

The development of the defenses on the Wn 20 led to the almost systematic destruction of the villas occupying the space of the strong point. Firstly with a view to recovering materials and finally to free the space in order to be able to fire everywhere. Those which will be preserved will serve as accommodation for the troops, in this case for a platoon of 10./736. As for the question, the English will mainly use as landmarks or milestones, the steeple of churches set back from the coast (Herman ville sur mer and Colleville sur Orne). The smoke from the fires caused by the bombardments on June 6, as well as the morning mist preventing them from correctly distinguishing these few dwellings. It is only with the second wave and those subsequent, that the navy will take appropriate graduation marks in order to stick as close as possible to the conquered and viable areas for the routing of reinforcements.
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Sep 2021 06:05

This is the area photographed in 1945. Click for the large version
ABC1 (2).jpg
ABC1 (1).jpg
The area was a housing development with the buildings in varoius stages of completion when the Germans took it over to build strongpoint Wn20
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Sep 2021 06:41

This is D-Day, see if you can find the 3 AVRE!

Click for large version
gtyu.jpg
tuuiw.jpg
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Sep 2021 07:31

Here you can see how they landed right in front of Wn20
Wn20.jpg
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by EKB » 19 Sep 2021 10:02

...

Other D-Day views of Sword Beach at various tide conditions:

B-26 Marauder over Sword Beach (NE of Riva Bella) copy.png
D-Day air photo of Sword beach.png
D-Day photo of La Bréche d'Hermanville at high tide.png
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by EKB » 19 Sep 2021 10:49



The Churchill AVRE called ‘Bulldog’ in the town square of La Bréche d’Hermanville. The turret number is partially obscured, but might be 2B or 3B (IWM B 5040).
Churchill tank Bulldog at La Breche town square copy.png

This AVRE was christened ‘Cheetah’ and possibly carried turret number 3A (IWM B 5095).
Churchill tank Cheetah on Sword Beach revised.png
Churchill tank Cheetah on Sword Beach Panoramic View.png
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/threa ... ts.214757/
https://www.ww2talk.com/index.php?threa ... 764/page-4

The caption from Steve Zaloga says: “Medics attend the wounded sheltering beside a Churchill AVRE Log Carpet layer named ‘Cheetah’ AVRE T 172053/C of 79th Assault Squadron RE, which landed from LCT(4) Serial 115 on Queen Red-Blue Gap. The three tubular lengths associated with the Log Carpet are evident on the top of the front mudguards after the carpet ws dispensed. This was probably tank 3A commanded by Lieutenant William H. H. Hutchinson. To the right is an M10 self-propelled gun of the 20th Anti-Tank Regiment RA.”


IWM has pictures of wartime briefing models (full color 3D maps) of Sword Beach and targets of highly publicized raids.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/sear ... ng%20model
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Sep 2021 14:46

EKB wrote:
19 Sep 2021 10:49
To the right is an M10 self-propelled gun of the 20th Anti-Tank Regiment RA.”
2 M10, the browning is clearly visible on the 2nd vehicle.

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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 19 Sep 2021 15:16

It was at 8:10 a.m. that the 20th Anti-Tank Regiment touched down in support of the 8th Inf.Brigade with the following elements: Bty HQ & E. Tp 67 Bty plus I Tp 45 Bty. Landing on Lane 2 (opposite the summer camp) at the eastern end of Wn 20, they will be subjected to crossfire from it, but as well from Wn 18 and 10, and also a few hits isolated from 11.(Sf)./Art.Rgt.1716 and I./Pz. Art.Rgt.155, which may explain the cloud of smoke.
The response of the pieces of the 1./HKAA.1260 on St Aubin d'Arquenay (Wn 15) still remains poorly documented but should not be excluded.
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by EKB » 19 Sep 2021 18:10

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
19 Sep 2021 01:14
The development of the defenses on the Wn 20 led to the almost systematic destruction of the villas occupying the space of the strong point. Firstly with a view to recovering materials and finally to free the space in order to be able to fire everywhere. Those which will be preserved will serve as accommodation for the troops, in this case for a platoon of 10./736. As for the question, the English will mainly use as landmarks or milestones, the steeple of churches set back from the coast (Herman ville sur mer and Colleville sur Orne). The smoke from the fires caused by the bombardments on June 6, as well as the morning mist preventing them from correctly distinguishing these few dwellings. It is only with the second wave and those subsequent, that the navy will take appropriate graduation marks in order to stick as close as possible to the conquered and viable areas for the routing of reinforcements.
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The IWM digital image is very low resolution but click on this print for a sharper view of the villa. The building looks damaged, but if this was a known enemy barracks and observation point I’m surprised that it was it not obliterated by the allied navy.
Churchill AVRE on Sword Beach (best print) Zoom 2.png
I understand why some of the waterfront housing was demolished by the Nazis to obtain better fields of fire for the strongpoints. Did the property owners bring lawsuits against Germany to get compensation?
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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 19 Sep 2021 18:28

The naval bombardment on the Wn 20 is to be considered as a partial failure. As for financial compensation, being mostly secondary villas, I sincerely believe that it was not a priority for the compensation commissions in the aftermath of the conflict. This part of the front remained in an identical state until the beginning of the 1960s.

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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by EKB » 20 Sep 2021 07:03

AETIUS 1980 wrote:
19 Sep 2021 15:16
It was at 8:10 a.m. that the 20th Anti-Tank Regiment touched down in support of the 8th Inf.Brigade with the following elements: Bty HQ & E. Tp 67 Bty plus I Tp 45 Bty. Landing on Lane 2 (opposite the summer camp) at the eastern end of Wn 20, they will be subjected to crossfire from it, but as well from Wn 18 and 10, and also a few hits isolated from 11.(Sf)./Art.Rgt.1716 and I./Pz. Art.Rgt.155, which may explain the cloud of smoke.
The response of the pieces of the 1./HKAA.1260 on St Aubin d'Arquenay (Wn 15) still remains poorly documented but should not be excluded.
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Thanks for this big piece of the puzzle. Which headquarters report has these details about the landing of 20th Anti-Tank Regiment?

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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 20 Sep 2021 08:42

I found them within the unit daily log.

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Re: Photo ID: British M10 Tank Destroyer in Normandy

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 20 Sep 2021 15:52

We must admit that the use of the TM.10 in the first phase of the landing remains a mystery to me. Certainly versatile machines, designed for the "hunt" of armored vehicles, there are only a few fragilities left making it unsuitable for this type of direct engagement on the beach. Its lack of superior protection is a real vulnerability to mortars, not to mention its armor. The armament deployed on the points of support does not guarantee him any chance of survival (even against a gun of 2.5 cm Pak 113 (f), then against a 5 cm KwK L/60 ......). Should we see a desire to possess at all costs a means of fighting in ambush against the German armored vehicles? The closest are also equivalents (platoon of Marder I/Sdk.fz.135 of the 1./Pz.Jg.Kp.716 (Sf) on Crésserons) and will not be deployed in direct confrontation. Then comes the question of those owned by the 21.Pz.Div and then in the Falaise sector.The Allied chain of command had probably estimated the minimum time required to respond to this threat, which must be diluted in view of Allied coverage and maritime support. It can be suggested that the fear of seeing a Salerno or Anzio-Nettuno renewed has fueled the need to have anti-tank training from the first wave, although it is a tactical counter-use! We can clearly see the traffic jam caused on the beach in the middle of the weak corridors drawn between mines. These bottlenecks of strangeness will limit the deployment of entities in constituted level which will have repercussions on the means available in the hands of the management of the 3rd Inf.Div to succeed in its various missions.

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