Latest round of Churchill bashing

[Imad]

Hello

The TIK fellow on YouTube has just released a clip lambasting Churchill.

Please let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/z2c7d5RfkAA

[Michael Kenny]

Hello

The TIK fellow on YouTube has just released a clip lambasting Churchill.

Please let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/z2c7d5RfkAA

Whatever you do do not post comments critical of his thinking. We can not survive another 3 hour clip explaining ''why I am right and everyone else is wrong'!

[Imad]

Hello

The TIK fellow on YouTube has just released a clip lambasting Churchill.

Please let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/z2c7d5RfkAA

Whatever you do do not post comments critical of his thinking. We can not survive another 3 hour clip explaining ''why I am right and everyone else is wrong'!

Indeed.

[CogCalgary]

Good thing the Americans were there to back up the Brits.Thankfully he didn't get around to the period after the war in Kenya while Churchill was PM.

[Imad]

Good thing the Americans were there to back up the Brits.Thankfully he didn't get around to the period after the war in Kenya while Churchill was PM.

Good thing he was around to stop Marshall and Co from launching a crosschannel attack in 1942. The Germans would probably have made mincemeat of the invasion force.

Good thing he was around to persuade Roosevelt to adopt the Germany first strategy. God knows how much longer the war would have lasted.

Good thing he was around to persuade the Americans to gain invaluable combat experience, especially amphibious warfare, by insisting on prioritizing the Mediterranean and Italy.

[wm]

The TIK guy lists British defeats and failures and merely declares Churchill is guilty of all of them.
But a defeat or a failure isn't proof of guilt or of incompetence. This should be established independently, not assumed.

And he says:

Churchill wants to escalate the war and bring the war to the Norwegians for what was essentially iron ore which the British didn't have the means to hold on anyway.

Wasn't the proposed operation all about denying the ore to the Germans? Because supposedly their war effort would be crippled as result?

[Imad]

And he says:

Churchill wants to escalate the war and bring the war to the Norwegians for what was essentially iron ore which the British didn't have the means to hold on anyway.

Wasn't the proposed operation all about denying the ore to the Germans? Because supposedly their war effort would be crippled as result?
[/quote]


That's how I always understood it. I'm not sure what Britain "holding on to it" has to do with anything.

[EwenS]

Often forgotten that Britain was also a big customer for Swedish iron ore shipped from Narvik. That ore was relatively pure compared to other sources of supply. IIRC there was a steel works in north east England that had been designed specifically to use Swedish ore. When that source was cut off in 1940, much money had to be spent adding additional stages to its processing.

Relatively speaking though, Germany was more dependent on Swedish ore than we were.

Seem to recall having this discussion somewhere earlier this year. I’ll try to dig out the links.

[CogCalgary]

Good thing the Americans were there to back up the Brits.Thankfully he didn't get around to the period after the war in Kenya while Churchill was PM.

Good thing he was around to stop Marshall and Co from launching a crosschannel attack in 1942. The Germans would probably have made mincemeat of the invasion force.

Good thing he was around to persuade Roosevelt to adopt the Germany first strategy. God knows how much longer the war would have lasted.

Good thing he was around to persuade the Americans to gain invaluable combat experience, especially amphibious warfare, by insisting on prioritizing the Mediterranean and Italy.

Really good thing that American NCR Corp was able to brute force crack the Enigma codes and locate the milk cows.Churchill started fights that he couldn't finish.

[Imad]

Good thing the Americans were there to back up the Brits.Thankfully he didn't get around to the period after the war in Kenya while Churchill was PM.

Good thing he was around to stop Marshall and Co from launching a crosschannel attack in 1942. The Germans would probably have made mincemeat of the invasion force.

Good thing he was around to persuade Roosevelt to adopt the Germany first strategy. God knows how much longer the war would have lasted.

Good thing he was around to persuade the Americans to gain invaluable combat experience, especially amphibious warfare, by insisting on prioritizing the Mediterranean and Italy.

Really good thing that American NCR Corp was able to brute force crack the Enigma codes and locate the milk cows.Churchill started fights that he couldn't finish.

What fights did he start?

[James A Pratt III]

Did Churchill make mistakes in WW II yes he did. However he can not be blamed for the following:

Norway 1940 Chamberlain was the PM. He was the man who made a mess of things here and before the war.

The British Army had problems not of Churchill's doing because he was out of power during years before the war. Between the wars it budget was cut and it's role was that of Imperial policing. The Chamberlain government did not change its role to fight a conventional war in Europe and start reequipping the Army until shortly before WW II began. Add to this the British and Empire forces in the early years of the war were often tactically and operationally inept. less said about the Army's lack of combined arms tactics the better.

[Michael Kenny]

Norway 1940 Chamberlain was the PM. He was the man who made a mess of things here and before the war.

I believe all the major rearmament decisions were made under Chamberlain 'before the war' and that the planners had fixed on 1939 as the earliest possible date they would be ready for a war.

[CogCalgary]

Good thing the Americans were there to back up the Brits.Thankfully he didn't get around to the period after the war in Kenya while Churchill was PM.

Good thing he was around to stop Marshall and Co from launching a crosschannel attack in 1942. The Germans would probably have made mincemeat of the invasion force.

Good thing he was around to persuade Roosevelt to adopt the Germany first strategy. God knows how much longer the war would have lasted.

Good thing he was around to persuade the Americans to gain invaluable combat experience, especially amphibious warfare, by insisting on prioritizing the Mediterranean and Italy.

Really good thing that American NCR Corp was able to brute force crack the Enigma codes and locate the milk cows.Churchill started fights that he couldn't finish.

What fights did he start?

The real war.Not the phoney war.

[wm]

Really?

The Supreme Commander Of The Armed Forces.

Berlin. 9th October 1939. 8 copies

Directive No. 6 For The Conduct Of The War


1. Should it become evident in the near future that England, and, under her influence, France also, are not disposed to bring the war to an end, I have decided, without further loss of time, to go over to the offensive.
…
3. I therefore issue the following orders for the further conduct of military operations:

                
(a) An offensive will be planned on the northern flank of the western front, through Luxembourg, Belgium, and Holland. This offensive must be launched at the earliest possible moment and in greatest possible strength.

                
(b) The purpose of this offensive will be to defeat as much as possible of the French Army and of the forces of the Allies fighting on their side, and at the same time to win as much territory as possible in Holland, Belgium, and Northern France, to serve as a base for the successful prosecution of the air and sea war against England and as a wide protective area for the economically vital Ruhr Basin.

[Richard Anderson]

Really good thing that American NCR Corp was able to brute force crack the Enigma codes and locate the milk cows.Churchill started fights that he couldn't finish.

What an odd thing to say or believe. The first U.S. Navy Bombes, Adam and Eve, built by NCR achieved its first decrypt on 22 June 1943.

There were eight "Milch Kühe" Typ-X. Six were sunk in Kriegsmarine service. U-116 was lost October 1942, U-118 on 12 June 1943, U-119 on 24 June 1943, U-117 on 7 August 1943, U-220 on 28 October 1943, and U-223 on 5 July 1944. Only U-117 and U-118 were sunk as a result of ULTRA intercepts.

There were ten "Milch Kühe" Typ-XIV. All were sunk, U-464 on 20 August 1942, U-463 on 16 May 1943, U-487 on 13 July 1943, U-459 on 24 July 1943, U-462 on 30 July 1943, U-461 on 30 July 1943, U-489 on 4 August 1943, U-460 on 4 October 1943, U-488 on 26 April 1944, and U-490 on 12 June 1944. None of them was as a consequence of ULTRA intercepts.

Only U-117 could have been sunk as a result of an ENIGMA decrypt by a U.S. Navy/NCR Bombe.