(Re) organisation of the 7th Armoured Brigade and 4th Armoured Brigade before Tobruk Jan 1941

[Happy Wanderer]

Gentlemen,

There were two British armoured brigades used in the operation to take Tobruk in January 1941, 7th & 4th, in support of the Australian 6th Division.

After the Battle of Bardia some reorganisation occurred...but damned if I can find what the changes were.

Could anyone with the info please advise what the organisation of both 7th Armoured Brigade and 4th Armoured Brigade were and the tanks they had.

That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Happy Wanderer

[EwenS]

Gentlemen,

There were two British armoured brigades used in the operation to take Tobruk in January 1941, 7th & 4th, in support of the Australian 6th Division.

After the Battle of Bardia some reorganisation occurred...but damned if I can find what the changes were.

Could anyone with the info please advise what the organisation of both 7th Armoured Brigade and 4th Armoured Brigade were and the tanks they had.

That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Happy Wanderer

Have you checked out this website on the history of 7th AD?

http://www.desertrats.org.uk/main.htm

[Happy Wanderer]

Hi Ewen

Yes I did. Thanks.

The details it provides are here for equipment but not specific as to type eg Matilda vs Cruiser tanks?
http://www.desertrats.org.uk/equipment.htm

Organisation is here
http://www.desertrats.org.uk/org.htm

...but again, not specific to type. I guess the Hussars at this time here in the Vickers Mk VI and A/Cs. 7th RTR were in Matildas but what of the 6th and 1st RTRs?..Cruiser tanks? I think, yes, but am not sure. I was hoping someone might have a specific return for the 7th and 4th post Bardia and pre Tobruk Jan '41...numbers are important too.

There is this useful snippet
"As a result of this on 18th January 1941, 6th RTR handed over 13 Light tanks, 11 Cruisers and 24 wheeled vehicles to 1st RTR, 2nd RTR, 4th RHA and 7th Hussars and then withdrew to Sidi Barrani, then onto Cairo. Shortly afterwards 8th Hussars also handed over what serviceable tanks they had and headed for Cairo, too."

http://www.desertrats.org.uk/battles1941.htm

It seem this looks like it has good detail.
"WO 106/2133 is a report on Operation Compass which discusses the attack on Tobruk."
...though the comment about he "16th Australian Division" is a bit of a concern..it was the 6th Division and the 16th Brigade.
https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/th ... -part-one/



Any further help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[EwenS]

Hi Ewen

Yes I did. Thanks.

The details it provides are here for equipment but not specific as to type eg Matilda vs Cruiser tanks?
http://www.desertrats.org.uk/equipment.htm

Organisation is here
http://www.desertrats.org.uk/org.htm

...but again, not specific to type. I guess the Hussars at this time here in the Vickers Mk VI and A/Cs. 7th RTR were in Matildas but what of the 6th and 1st RTRs?..Cruiser tanks? I think, yes, but am not sure. I was hoping someone might have a specific return for the 7th and 4th post Bardia and pre Tobruk Jan '41...numbers are important too.

There is this useful snippet
"As a result of this on 18th January 1941, 6th RTR handed over 13 Light tanks, 11 Cruisers and 24 wheeled vehicles to 1st RTR, 2nd RTR, 4th RHA and 7th Hussars and then withdrew to Sidi Barrani, then onto Cairo. Shortly afterwards 8th Hussars also handed over what serviceable tanks they had and headed for Cairo, too."

http://www.desertrats.org.uk/battles1941.htm

It seem this looks like it has good detail.
"WO 106/2133 is a report on Operation Compass which discusses the attack on Tobruk."
...though the comment about he "16th Australian Division" is a bit of a concern..it was the 6th Division and the 16th Brigade.
https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/th ... -part-one/



Any further help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Maybe try the guys over at ww2talk. It is the kind of detail that they might have.
http://ww2talk.com/index.php

[Urmel]

6 and 1 RTR were cruiser regiments at this time. Only 7 RTR had Matildas in the desert in early 1941, as 4 RTR hadn't shown yet.

http://www.warlinks.com/armour/6th_roya ... rtr_41.php

Also:

The attack on Bardia began on December 27th: as soon as its success was sure, the brigade moved west along the Trigh Capuzzo to El Adem, where the pile of ruined aircraft bore witness to the effective work of Air Commodore Collishaw's gallant little Desert Air Force, and drove the enemy inside the perimeter defences of Tobruk, while 7th Armoured Brigade and Support Group completed its encirclement to the west.

As a result mainly of mechanical troubles and the complete lack of spares, it now became necessary to re-organise the brigade. 6th Royal Tanks were therefore dismounted, and, much to their chagrin, had to return to Alexandria, their tanks being handed over to the other two regiments. On January 22nd 6th Australian Division began the attack on Tobruk, 4 RHA taking part in the fire programme. The following day the brigade, taking 3rd Hussars also under command, advanced straight to Mechili, where the Italians' sole remaining mobile force was known to be

http://www.warlinks.com/armour/4th_armo ... pter_1.php