Neutral Ireland

Discussions on the Allies and the Neutral States in general and the countries that does not have sections of their own.
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phylo_roadking
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by phylo_roadking » 12 Jun 2012 20:27

I would suggest that a German move into Ireland was only likely as part of mopping up operations after a successful invasion of the UK rather than as a predecessor to it.
It was originally and clearly planned as a diversionary option for Sealion...but after the "indefinite" postponement of that in September 1940, Grun took on a life of its own, as it was a fully-worked up standalone plan as opposed to a "table talk" pipedream. In December for example, it was receiving Hitler's personal consideration when the Germans heard about possible British plans south of the border.
...and maintain a lodgement in Ireland than to invade England in the face of Royal Navy and Royal Air Force home dominance around and over the British Isles. Logistically it is a non-starter.
The Germans were fully aware of that; Generalleutnant Leonhard Kaupitsch Commander of the German Fourth and Seventh Army Corps, Army Group B...
"The 'Green' operation confronts us with an entirely new task. Therefore there are no precedents from which we can work. In many cases, troops will have to look after themselves. Each commander must look for a way to achieve his individual objective. Everything depends on the extent of co-operation, on each individual's alertness and ability to take independent action. Confidence in the achievements of German leadership and the German Soldier should be the foundation of this operation."
...and HE was in charge of implementing Fall Grun! :P Raeder's opinion was...more bald? :) Four months after it was first mooted, and the paper plan worked up -
"To a defending force, cut off and left to its own devices, the topography of the country [Ireland] does not afford us much protection... without supplies and reinforcements they would soon feel the increasing pressure of British expeditionary force brought over under the protection of British naval power; sooner or later our own troops would face a situation similar to Namsos or Dunkirk."
But then again...if Adolf had said jump.... :wink:
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by phylo_roadking » 12 Jun 2012 20:42

LWD - ports of departure were Lorient, Saint-Nazaire, and Nantes, with an advance guard of just under 4,000 men, followed by ultimately up to 50,000 men. They were land at available ports along the southern coast of the island from Wexford to Dungarvan. Having captured the ports there, German units were expected to fight their way up to thirty miles inland to establish a beach-head running from Gorey to Clonmel in County Tipperary. It appears that the Germans were to sit in that bridgehead awaiting for the outcome of Sealion! :lol: But of course...by that point they'd have triggered the British incursion from the North, consuming those troops gathered in NI for the purpose, meaning they wouldn't be available to ship in a panic to the mainland UK!

Having checked again - all they had to transport the advance force was a total of five ships, two steamships and three small coasters, and a share of coastal craft gather for Sealion; all were to be equiped with AA armament...but were to be provided as far along their voyage as possible with fighter cover from the Luftwaffe's new fields in Brittany

Other points of entry had been considerabled...including the chores of the Shannon Estuary, Galway Bay, Donegal Bay, Lough Foyle, Belfast Lough, and Cobh; given how many of those included major defences...! :roll:
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

Linkagain
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by Linkagain » 11 Nov 2021 14:32

DevV alera Neutrality
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... t=0&sim=11

ALso an Alterantive History ic Collins had not been Killed 1922,,,,
There is a popular child poem how lack of a horseshoe nail caused a King downfall..yet by the same token a single August 1922 that killed Mick Collins changed the Irish people destiny for nearly 70 until the advent of the Good Friday Agreement in N.---- I---Power sharing....But what if the bullet had missed...?
Collins would probably have meet the ANti treaty leadership and enlisted him in his secret Guerilla War in the 6 Counties....
Liam Lynch would probably have refused...and in a confrontation with the head of THe Squad Pat OConner each would have killed one another...
Would Could Collins do? With his untrained army he dared not risk either siege or city battles...
His solution would be to make fake attacks on both Belfast and Derry...the Unionists would lock themselves behind their walls and wait for the irish to engage in suicide attacks....in fact the Collins pland is more simple...Blockade Belfast and Derry and siege and occupy counties of Tyrone and Fermough
Now he cant occupy all six counties...but the ones he has occupied are valuable because they Nationallist-Republic majorities...and just as importantly the 6 N.I. Couties cannot survice ecomoniclly...Why even with these two counties the British Empire coast was nearly a million pounds budget....without these two counties the coast of Goverment would go sky-high....with the boundry commission 38 vs 4 Collins spends the next decade or so being the entire irish cabinent...until Dev Valera is voated in and writes the Constitutuin by himself {Naturally]
In 1939 Collins meets Churhcill secretly and make pragmatic agreement..although the IFS is "Neutral" they will not permit U-boats to refuel there {Ireland has no oil but peat} and as for the Royal NAcy...although it cant officaly land in IFS if the RN does come close to the Itish Shore the I FS NAvy [trawlers will not interfer.} LAStly the IFS Army will occupy and protect the northern 4 counties..but will ot force them to become part of teh IFS {Any potential Loyalists are
drafted into british service and sent far away such as the Middle EAst or ASia]
LAStly the question of what to do with the irish Deserters....Collins undertakes a case by case study and two pragmatic Courses: those who deserted and tun to crime are coutmartial discharged and tuened over to the Courts....those who had deserted to fight...are regretfully found guilty....however there senences are commuted to be placed on parole...proveided they fill out service comparabled to when they took French leave....and provided they are positioned as Instructors to the new recruits of the IFS Army.....and after they have fulfilled their ters they are given Honorable discharges; their soldiers allowances are not confiscated. and their children are not palced in indusrail workshops...
Now in regard
1946 the 30th anniversary of the glorious Easter Uprsing- a quesiton before the Dial as the Emergency is over -should the troops come home?
Dev Valera makes the sudden annocement that as his Army has occupied the 4 Counties they re defacto part of the Irish Republic
England tried despartly to get back the 4 counties...but simply doesent have the strength or resourves to do so..
Collins is shocked that Dev Valera had not done the courtesy of telling him of this new polciy..this and the death of his wife casues Collins to die of a Heart attack...for the next 40 years till the day he Dies Dev Valera runs the Repubic as he sees fit with an Iron hand....

And all because of a bullet that should have missed its target but didnt.....

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by Sid Guttridge » 12 Nov 2021 12:45

Hi Linkagain,

I have seen some inconsequential tosh on AHF over the years......

Sid

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by Sid Guttridge » 12 Nov 2021 12:45

Hi Linkagain,

I have seen some inconsequential fantasies on AHF over the years......

Sid

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Mark McShane
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by Mark McShane » 12 Nov 2021 13:35

Sid Guttridge wrote:
12 Nov 2021 12:45
Hi Linkagain,

I have seen some inconsequential fantasies on AHF over the years......

Sid
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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mil-archive
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by mil-archive » 12 Nov 2021 16:08

Sorry but this is just bonkers.

LineDoggie
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Re: Neutral Ireland

Post by LineDoggie » 14 Nov 2021 02:28

Eireneutral wrote:
11 Jun 2012 16:44
Yes i would think that the Germans could have taken, even all of the British isles as well only, for they went to war with Russia. I think that the allies did, control the Irish Government, they even established them, to a certain extent, it's a similar type scenario, to lets say Iraq as it is now, and Libyia also, and a countless other amount of countries down through the decades, where they wanted regime change.
No way they take the UK since they cant get across the channel while the RAF and Home Fleet still exist
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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