Führer and Turkish Officers

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clement
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28/10/41 Rastenburg

#16

Post by clement » 28 May 2007, 14:27

28/10/41 Rastenburg

Salam Vox Stellarum Bey

I have found interesting information from G Von Mende archives

The failure of Wehrmacht to the doors of Moscow at the winter 1941 and the prospect for a long war represented a turning in the Eastern policy of the Third Reich. In January 1942 begins the recruitment of Legions of the East (Ostlegionen) among the representatives of the national minorities of the Soviet Union. The visit in Germany of two Turkish Generals, Ali Fuad Erden and Hüsnü Emir Erkilet, was the immediate factor, even the pretext, which started this change in the position of Berlin. The Turkish officers had just accomplished a voyage of recognition on the Eastern front in October 1941. They wished to release from the German prison camps of war the former soldiers of the Red Army of Turkish origin. Received in the Führer headquarters, they proposed to Hitler to recruit units of volunteers among the prisoners of war of Turkish origin, taking as a starting point the precedent of the Legion of the Islam of Nuri Pasha (First World War). In November 1941 Hitler agree to form Turk Tatar and Caucasians Legions .
G. von Mende. Bemerkungen zu dem Bericht ueber die Freiwilligenverbände von General
Köstring. p. 1.

Ozundan mugayat ol

Clement

Tosun Saral
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#17

Post by Tosun Saral » 28 May 2007, 15:08

Clement You also "Ozundan mugayat ol" (Take care of yourself.)
[Ozunden = Özünden/Oezuenden]

Friends, For Information only.
after giving a good look at the post I noticed that Hüseyin Hüsnü Emir Erkilet was also attached to the group as a retired General. In his book published in 1943 he signed "Müt. General" which means retired general.

On another forum at axis we are discussing the story:
During the WW2 many turcic citizens of Soviet Russia, mostly Cremean Turks deserted from the red army and joined to Germans. Germans organized a unit with those Turcic soldiers. When I was learning German in Hammmer-Purgstall courses in Vienna, before my University education in 1961 our teacher Mr Hans (I forgot his surname, May he rest in Paradise) who could speak all Turcic languages, was a SS Officers as translater in that unit. As students we are all lazzy and crayzy. He always showed his finger to us and said in his beautiful Turcic axcent, joking "Look boys. I am a SS officer. I don't care that you are Turks I dont care what you are or whom you are"

After the war allies gave all those Turcic soldiers to Russians back. Russians executed all of them even their families. It is a tragedy. Every one speaks about Armenian genocide, but no body knows about the fate of poor Turks executed by Russians.

Cengiz Dagci a Cremean Turk was one of those soldiers who fought with Germans againts Russians in WW2. He found a way and escaped from the British prison camp and refugeed to Turkey. He wrote books about his memories. The books was published by Varlik Yayinlari in 1950's in Istanbul. Name of the books "Onlarda Insandi (They were also humanbeings)"
"O Topraklar Bizimdi (Those lands were ours)" He wrote all his works in Turkish. I heard some of his works were translated into English in Britain. After publishing ten pages of his novel "Onlar da insandi"(They were human too) in English, London Literature Society draw attention to his works and he was critized as "a great novelist as much as Soljenitsin". You must search in US or British Libraries after his name for the books.

Tatars, Cekess and other Turkic tribes suffered too much. We must never forget that sufferings.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... ight=dagci

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 84#1063784


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Castellan
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Re: Führer and Turkish Officers

#18

Post by Castellan » 12 Mar 2011, 04:08

@vox stellarum

Do you own this picture?
Image

If you do, can you please scan it and post it again with a better quality? This is a magnificent picture, I would like to print and post it to my wall :-). I would greatly appreciate it.


I have the picture posted below in one of the books (a book about the Tiger Battalion 503) of my archive but the quaility is a bit low because of the paper type used. What is your source book for these pictures?

Image

Image

Tosun Saral
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Re: Führer and Turkish Officers

#19

Post by Tosun Saral » 12 Mar 2011, 20:59

Source: Staff Co. (R) Ambassador Hüsrev Gerede (Turkish Ambassador to Berlin 1939-1942 wrote his memories: "Sığınakta Kaleme Alınan Belgesel Harb İçinde Almanya" ( Documentary written in the bunker :Germany During War) ABC Ajansı yayınları publication, İstanbul 1994

General Ali Fuad Erden with Ambassador H.E. Hüsrev Gerede and General Hase at the reception given to greet the 17th Anniversary of Turkish Reublic on Oct. 29th 1940

General Ali Fuad Erden at the Front with General Löhr and Air Captain pilot Mölders on Nov.1st 1941.

On the other hand the person in civil near General Ali Fuad Erden discussing with Hitler is not General (R) Hüseyin Hüsnü Emir Erkilet but Turkish Ambassador H.E. Hüsrev Gerede.
Attachments
Ali Fuad Erden1.jpg
Ali Fuad Erden1.jpg (31.72 KiB) Viewed 1189 times
Ali Fuad Erden.jpg
Ali Fuad Erden.jpg (41.68 KiB) Viewed 1189 times

Tosun Saral
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Re: Führer and Turkish Officers

#20

Post by Tosun Saral » 12 Mar 2011, 21:00

sorry
What I noticed on this book is that if there no printing mistake that Gen. A.F. Erden come to Germany 3 times:
1940, Oct 1941 and Nov. 1941
Attachments
Ali Fuad Erden1.jpg
Ali Fuad Erden1.jpg (31.72 KiB) Viewed 1189 times

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Castellan
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Re: Führer and Turkish Officers

#21

Post by Castellan » 12 Mar 2011, 23:30

The pictures I ask are about General Cemil Cahit Toydemir' s.

I know this picture below is from the book "Combat History of Tiger Abteilung 503" of Rubbel, von Rosen and Lochmann.
Image

The edition I have is of the year 2008. However picture qualities of the edition I own is almost awful. There is an earlier edition 2000. What I tried to ask @vox stellarum was that if the 2000 edition' s images were of better quality as the ones in his post. The 2000 version of the book I mention is posted below. I own the reprint of it, I simply say stay away from it. However, if vox stellarum has an idea about the 2000 version of which the link is shared below, he may prefer enlighting us.
http://www.amazon.com/Combat-History-sc ... 613&sr=8-4

As for this picture below, the same history of Panzer Battalion 503 includes a similar picture from a different angle. However the image is not in this perspective. I was wondering the source of this picture below.
Image



As for my greatest quest :-), I was wondering this picture of General Cahit Toydemir walking with Hitler and Keitel in front of Wolf' s Lair.

Image

I assume this rare photo of General Cahit Toydemir is from a private archive so that we may not be able to obtain the original copy of it. But anyway, may I request that he may scan the picture so that we may own a high quality of this rare picture as well?

Thanks in advance,

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Re: 28/10/41 Rastenburg

#22

Post by Tosun Saral » 13 Mar 2011, 16:04

clement wrote:28/10/41 Rastenburg

Salam Vox Stellarum Bey

I have found interesting information from G Von Mende archives

The failure of Wehrmacht to the doors of Moscow at the winter 1941 and the prospect for a long war represented a turning in the Eastern policy of the Third Reich. In January 1942 begins the recruitment of Legions of the East (Ostlegionen) among the representatives of the national minorities of the Soviet Union. The visit in Germany of two Turkish Generals, Ali Fuad Erden and Hüsnü Emir Erkilet, was the immediate factor, even the pretext, which started this change in the position of Berlin. The Turkish officers had just accomplished a voyage of recognition on the Eastern front in October 1941. They wished to release from the German prison camps of war the former soldiers of the Red Army of Turkish origin. Received in the Führer headquarters, they proposed to Hitler to recruit units of volunteers among the prisoners of war of Turkish origin, taking as a starting point the precedent of the Legion of the Islam of Nuri Pasha (First World War). In November 1941 Hitler agree to form Turk Tatar and Caucasians Legions .
G. von Mende. Bemerkungen zu dem Bericht ueber die Freiwilligenverbände von General
Köstring. p. 1.

Ozundan mugayat ol

Clement
Dear Clement,
General Hüseyin Hüsnü Emir Erkilet was a Crimean turk whose family imigrated to Turkey after lost of Criemea.

Tosun Saral
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Re: 28/10/41 Rastenburg

#23

Post by Tosun Saral » 13 Mar 2011, 16:06

Tosun Saral wrote:
clement wrote:28/10/41 Rastenburg

Salam Vox Stellarum Bey

I have found interesting information from G Von Mende archives

The failure of Wehrmacht to the doors of Moscow at the winter 1941 and the prospect for a long war represented a turning in the Eastern policy of the Third Reich. In January 1942 begins the recruitment of Legions of the East (Ostlegionen) among the representatives of the national minorities of the Soviet Union. The visit in Germany of two Turkish Generals, Ali Fuad Erden and Hüsnü Emir Erkilet, was the immediate factor, even the pretext, which started this change in the position of Berlin. The Turkish officers had just accomplished a voyage of recognition on the Eastern front in October 1941. They wished to release from the German prison camps of war the former soldiers of the Red Army of Turkish origin. Received in the Führer headquarters, they proposed to Hitler to recruit units of volunteers among the prisoners of war of Turkish origin, taking as a starting point the precedent of the Legion of the Islam of Nuri Pasha (First World War). In November 1941 Hitler agree to form Turk Tatar and Caucasians Legions .
G. von Mende. Bemerkungen zu dem Bericht ueber die Freiwilligenverbände von General
Köstring. p. 1.

Ozundan mugayat ol

Clement
Dear Clement,
General Hüseyin Hüsnü Emir Erkilet was a Crimean Tatar Turk whose family imigrated to Turkey after lost of Criemea.

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