Yugoslave & Greek AFVs 1941

[David Reasoner]

So the Greeks had Peerless A/C's, with Austin bodywork. I'm aware of the Austin Tourer and Tilly types - my father owned a Surplus Tilly for some years...THANKFULLY before I happened along.

Phylo, the Greeks did indeed have Peerless armored lorries during the 1920's and '30's. These were originally used for internal security, and were not part of the 19th Mechanized Division's equipment. From John Moher and his Defence of Greece website:

"Meanwhile also in the 1920's, Greece purchased several Peerless Armored Lorries from Great Britain (who no longer needed them in Ireland), and they were used during the various Coup d'etats in Greece over the following 10+ years. In 1923 Vickers were contracted for “Armoring 10 Peerless Lorries” for Greece, but it is unclear whether these were new vehicles or ex-Ireland. The cost of this contract was £7,162.00. By 1935-1938, the various armored lorries were probably no longer in service."

http://ww2greece.wargaming.info/index.htm

The use of the armed Austin military tourers by the 19th Mechanized is something I have confirmed from multiple sources and am quite certain of.

David

[phylo_roadking]

The logic of this -

In 1923 Vickers were contracted for “Armoring 10 Peerless Lorries” for Greece, but it is unclear whether these were new vehicles or ex-Ireland

...would indicate that they weren't "armoured lorries used in Ireland" - just plain Peerless Lorries from Army service there...or else Vickers wouldn't have had to add armoured bodies to them

The use of the armed Austin military tourers by the 19th Mechanized is something I have confirmed from multiple sources and am quite certain of.

Can we see? I'm sure Yan would love to know before he would start spending. For it would indeed make quite a sight on the table...

Coming up with all those MG-armed Austin 8HP in 20mm scale is one part of building the Greek Army in miniature I don't look forward to...

...but you might be suprised WHERE he can find the raw material. 20mm is roughly OO scale, after all, and I know a number of miniature railway vehicle/scenic accesory sites that will provide him what he needs

[David Reasoner]

Phylo, I will scan a couple of pages from a Greek military history publication I have on the Greek Army 1940-41 when I have the time. The use of the Austin tourers as machinegun carriers in the 19th Mechanized Division has been confirmed by the Aris Kosionidis of Athens (you may have noted he was also a source in the 'Dutchmen' article from the Tank Museum I posted above) as well as the 2 on-line sources I have previously quoted.

And yes, I am considering the use of OO scale diecast Austins as the basis for my Greek motor machinegun squadron(s).

David

[Harry Yeide]

Pics of the Yugoslav tanks: http://stef124.tripod.com/reno_ft_17.htm, http://www.paluba.info/smf/slavna-oruzj ... reno-r-35/ (see bottom photo), and http://oklop3.tripod.com/drugisvetski.htm.

[David Reasoner]

Scans as promised:







The first page includes a discussion of the equipment of the 19th Mechanized Division, the other 2 pages discuss vehicles provided by the British, as well as containing some interesting photos of Greek military vehicles. Rather than struggle with a Greek keyboard character map for my computer, I merely scanned the cover of the source publication:



One correction to my previous statements; both the publication above and my notes from Aris give the machineguns on the Austins as Hotchkiss (most likely the M1926 LMG), rather than Bren or Lewis.

David

[phylo_roadking]

David, thanks for those. Given Yan's original question though....do you know when the British supplied them? If he's looking for AFVs and infantry vehicles BEFORE the Axis invasions....therefore before the Italians as well???...he might not be able to use them

[David Reasoner]

David, thanks for those. Given Yan's original question though....do you know when the British supplied them? If he's looking for AFVs and infantry vehicles BEFORE the Axis invasions....therefore before the Italians as well???...he might not be able to use them

They would almost certainly have been supplied at the same time as the 'Dutchmen', Bren/Universal carriers, and Ford CMP trucks, between December 1940 and February or March 1941. Too late for use against the initial Italian invasion.

David

[YAN]

Thankg Guys, we are going to add a small AFV unit to the Greek rules, talking about old armoured cars earlier in the thread I was going to say what about the Poles, surly they did not use the old FT-B, PEUGEOT AM and WZ-28 against the Germans, The FT-B & PEUGEOT AM look like something out of the keystone cops, though I maby wrong about the WZ-28 I think the French used some in North Africa against the Americans in 1942.
Thanks Yan.

[David Reasoner]

YAN, most everything you need to know about Polish armored cars can be found here:

http://derela.republika.pl/armcarpl.htm#ac

Only a few wz.28 were left by 1939, the majority having been converted to wz.34 standard. The wz.28 was only used by the Poles, although the French did have the somewhat similar halftrack AMC P16 armored car:

http://www.chars-francais.net/new/index ... &Itemid=37

For a list of French units still equipped with the P16 in 1940, see here:

http://france1940.free.fr/armee/gr.html#DIM

David

[David Reasoner]

Pics of the Yugoslav tanks: http://stef124.tripod.com/reno_ft_17.htm, http://www.paluba.info/smf/slavna-oruzj ... reno-r-35/ (see bottom photo), and http://oklop3.tripod.com/drugisvetski.htm.

Very nice finds, Mr. Yeide. Thanks!

David

[YAN]

David was the AMC P16 and the WZ 28 differnt vehicles, were they both based on the Kegress armoured car, I always get these two cars mixed up because they look so similar.
Yan.

[nuyt]

David,
Do you know if that book is still available in Greece? It looks interesting...
Nuyt

[David Reasoner]

David,
Do you know if that book is still available in Greece? It looks interesting...
Nuyt

Nuyt, I don't know. I got mine second-hand from a friend with a spare copy. The ISBN number is: 960-86822-5-8 and the copyright date was 2001. I hope that helps you.

Yan, yes they are entirely different and separate vehicles, both based on the Citroen-Kegresse halftrack suspension. This link covers the development history of both vehicles:

http://derela.republika.pl/wz28.htm

David

[YAN]

Thanks David, we have both AFVs in the rules both with the same stats so I will have to amend a few things.
Yan.

[nuyt]

Nuyt, I don't know. I got mine second-hand from a friend with a spare copy. The ISBN number is: 960-86822-5-8 and the copyright date was 2001. I hope that helps you.
David

Hi David,
Unfortunately the book is no longer for sale in Greece. It is no 3 of a series that now has reached no 20.
Could I ask you if the book has any pics of Greek artillery, more specifically of any type of Kruppish looking 75mm guns?
Thanks,
Nuyt