Yugoslave artillery 1941

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YAN
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Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 15 Jun 2009 13:06

Hi, I have compiled a list of artillery used by the Yugoslave army on the eve of the invasion in 1941, I dont know how acurate it is, and I cannot find any data on what numbers they had or what was actually used.

37mmL/40 AT Gun (Skoda)
37mmL/47 AT Gun (Skoda)
70mm/37mm Inf/AT Gun (Skoda)
65mmL/20 Mountain Gun (Schneider)
75mmL/15 M.1915 Mountain Gun (Skoda)
100mmL/24 M.1919 Mountain Gun (Skoda)
75mmL/36 M.1897 Field Gun (Schneider)
76mmL/???? M.1905/28 Field Gun (Skoda????)
100mmL/24 Field Howitzer (Skoda)
105mmL/???? M.1898/09 Field Howitzer (Skoda)
105mmL/???? M.1916 Field Howitzer (Skoda)
105mmL/???? M.1930 Field Gun (Skoda)
120mmL/???? M.1910/15 Field Howitzer (Skoda)
150mmL/14 M.1914 Field Howitzer (Skoda)
155mmL/???? M.1917 Field Howitzer (Schneider)
220mmL/???? M.1928 Heavy Mortar (Skoda)
305mmL/???? M.1916 Heavy Mortars (Skoda)
76mmL/???? M.1928 AA Gun (Skoda)

as you can see, they used a lot of Skoda hardware, can anyone help us with what quantity the Yugoslave army had of these guns, and fill in a few gaps, please.
Thanks Yan.

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 15 Jun 2009 14:05

That is something for me - just be patient, got almost everything. :D

Something for quick start:


YAN wrote: 37mm L/40 AT Gun (Skoda) - not sure about its use
37mm L/47 AT Gun (Skoda) - most of Yugoslav AT guns
47mm L/43 AT Gun M.1936 (Skoda) - preferred model in Yugoslav Army

70mm/37mm Inf/AT Gun (Skoda) - scratch this one - not used by Yugoslavia
65mm L/20 Mountain Gun (Schneider)
75mm L/15 M.1915 Mountain Gun (Skoda)
100mm L/24 M.1919 Mountain Gun (Skoda) - maybe this is mistake for Skoda M.16/19 Mountain HOWITZER?
75mmL/36 M.1897 Field Gun (Schneider) - in 1931 all 70 guns given to Polland in excange for WWI Skoda models
76mm L/?? M.1905/28 Field Gun (Skoda?) - ex Austro-Hungarian 8cm L/30 field guns (real caliber 76.5mm) on improvised wooden AA mounts. Not a Skoda model - AZF Wien
100mm L/24 Field Howitzer M.1928 (Skoda)
105mmL/?? M.1898/09 Field Howitzer (Skoda) - That's designation of GERMAN, not Skoda weapon; not used by Yugoslavia
105mmL/???? M.1916 Field Howitzer (Skoda) - another German type - not used by Yugoslavia
105mmL/???? M.1930 Field Gun (Skoda) - M.1936 (Skoda "J" export gun, similar to vz. 35)
120mm L/?? M.1910/15 Field Howitzer (Skoda) - not Skoda, but Schneider "Mle 1915" (L/13)
150mm L/14 M.1914 Heavy Howitzer (Skoda) - also M.14/16 model
155mm L/15 M.1917 Heavy Howitzer (Schneider) - also few 155 C Mle 1915 Schneiders, from 1918 Serbian Army
15-cm L/47 Skoda M.28 (long gun)

220mm L/20 M.1928 Heavy Mortar (Skoda)
305mm L/???? M.1916 Heavy Mortars (Skoda)
76mm L/???? M.1928 AA Gun (Skoda) - 8cm L/50 (real caliber 76.5mm)


BTW, this is ONLY A HALF OF LIST :wink: Also, why "Yugoslave"? :roll: You like French more than English? :D

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 15 Jun 2009 16:19

Thanks Edge, thanks to your help I can re-do my Yugoslave Artillery data, it was inacurate in many areas.
BTW, we will try to pit the Yugoslave forces against the Axis, in 1941.
Yan.

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 19 Jun 2009 11:13

After two days "out of action" (not the "missing - probably drunk" version, just lot of work & private complications), here's the list I promised:
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YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 19 Jun 2009 14:31

Thanks Edge, you have a drink for me, great info just what I needed.
Yan.

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 19 Jun 2009 14:44

Very Good The Edge. Now giving the guns to units :lol:

I have 101,102 (typo for 111 and 112?) Heavy? Motorized Artillery Regiments with 105mm M.35 apparently attached to Savski Brigade/Detach, in this unit was also the Guards Artillery Regiment .
I have 114 Heavy Artillery Regiment with 150mm guns probably M.28 (this Regiemnt was split between 3rd Territorial and Coastal Command
I have in my list that Kotor fortress still might still had an unreferenced 2x280mm Mortars/Howitzers

I never found to what unit belongs the 220mm mortars and the 305mm ones.


And there is also need to research the Navy guns on land :lol:

I suspect some of this were installed in Land specially the 9cm.

4cm M.36 Bofors AA
8,35 cm Skoda Mod 1922/24 AA
9cm Skoda PL vz.12/20

There is also this AH guns that might have remained in Coastal installations

66 mm D45 & D50 Skoda TAG
66 mm D45 & D50 Skoda BAG
150mm D40 Skoda
150mm D50 Skoda
190mm D42 Skoda

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 22 Jun 2009 15:52

Hi Dili, have you got any precise numbers for the 75mm field guns, I was going to equippe the infantry with 75mm M04 Krupp field guns (I dont know if they were the most common of the 75mm in use).
to shorten the list of field artillery down, I have come up with the list below.
75mm M.04 field gun
80mm M.28 field gun
100mm M.14/19 field How
105mm M.36 gun
150mm M.36 How
150mm M.28 gun
would it be right to equippe the infantry divisions with the 75mm, 80mm and 100mm
and have the 105mm guns and 150mm guns and Hows with the army or corps artillery ?.
Thanks Yan.

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 22 Jun 2009 21:44

This is a speculative exercise:
You do have 300 pieces of 80cm "EF" gun. This roughly gives guns for 12 divisions. Being the best you should probably put them in regular Infantry Divisions. Still misses regular 5 Divisions. I have Vrbas,Sava,Drava and Jadran Division with 75mm Guns but i didn't made a note so i can't refer a source to that, the Guards Division appears split by Savski and Banar Detachments , but i don't have the guns, but Savski Detachment had also 101 and 102 Artillery regiments with 105mm M.36.Likewise i have Reserve Triglav Division with only 8x 100mm Mt. Gun and 12x 75mm Mt.Guns, 71 Artillery Regiment at Corps Level w/ 155mm Howitzer and 114 Arty Regiment with 150mm.


A good chance to get some hint for Gun numbers is to find a list with numbers of German captures. Below is a comparable part list of Italian captures, they only moved at coast some guns might even have come from German captures:

-------------
This place has a list of Guns Captured by Italian Army http://xoomer.virgilio.it/ramius/Milita ... e_2gm.html

Only Fixed or very low mobility Guns in Bunkers and emplacements(some numbers seem exagerated for positional guns , the 156 cal of Skoda might be an error)

37/20 M 16 cann. da pos. Putezux Francia, Grecia e Jugoslavia
37/44 M 37 cann. da pos. Skoda 10 Jugoslavia
65/18 M 06 cann. da pos. Schneider 82 Jugoslavia, Grecia
75/17 M 19 e M 28 obice da pos. Schneider 179 Jugoslavia
105/35 M 29 cann. da pos. Jugoslavia
105/ ? M 38 cann. da pos. Jugoslavia
150/35 cann. da pos. Rheinmetall 4 Jugoslavia
156/47 M 16 cann. da pos. Skoda Jugoslavia
190/40 M 03 e M 06 cann. da pos. Skoda Jugoslavia

Others to help you:

CC= Contra Carro = anti tank
CA= Contra aereo = AA Gun
Obice = Howitzer

They are at link.

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 23 Jun 2009 08:48

I have some info regarding Yugoslav Fortress Artillery. To start with, Military Encyclopedia from 1970s claims (about) 500 fortress guns, all of them of „old“ (even obsolete - Encyclopedia puts all guns produced before 1918 into this category). That means whole Yugoslav fortress artillery were ex-Austro-Hungarian guns, with no new guns obtained 1919-1941 (all new guns bought for Navy went on ships). Regarding the AA artillery, it is quoted separately, but the numbers given fit to Army inventory (maybe some „old“ ones served with naval fortress installations).

One Yugoslav source (1935) mentions following “Fortress Artillery” types:
- 240mm coastal mortar M.98,
- 210 mm coastal mortar M.98,
- 156mm coastal gun L/50,
- 150mm coastal gun L/40,
- 120mm ship gun L/35,
- 105mm ship gun L/45,
- 104mm fortress howitzer M.16,
- 75mm field gun M.14,
- 70mm marine gun M.18.
Data for named guns are given in table bellow (Cyrilic letters). Compare with the German data of captured “Marine” guns (much longer list).
A-H fortress artillery at: http://www.weltkriege.at/ (go for “AUSRÜSTUNG/BEWAFFNUNG” then “Geschütze”).

Yugoslav Navy also used a lot of other light A-H naval guns in 47mm, 6-cm (57mm), 7-cm (66mm) in coastal installations, with some 7cm (66mm) guns probably adapted for AA role too. Only specific AA guns mentioned for Navy were “9cm L/45s” – number given is just one battery, regarding the 1928 deal with Czechoslovakia, along the modification of M.15 long guns (from 104 to 105mm) - so I suppose that old 9-cm M.12 guns were brought to M.12/20 standard.
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by nuyt » 23 Jun 2009 08:58

Dili wrote:150/35 cann. da pos. Rheinmetall 4 Jugoslavia


Any info on these guns?

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 23 Jun 2009 09:47

YAN wrote:Hi Dili, have you got any precise numbers for the 75mm field guns, I was going to equippe the infantry with 75mm M04 Krupp field guns (I dont know if they were the most common of the 75mm in use).
to shorten the list of field artillery down, I have come up with the list below.
75mm M.04 field gun
80mm M.28 field gun
100mm M.14/19 field How
105mm M.36 gun
150mm M.36 How
150mm M.28 gun
would it be right to equippe the infantry divisions with the 75mm, 80mm and 100mm
and have the 105mm guns and 150mm guns and Hows with the army or corps artillery ?


First of all, delete M.04 Krupp guns (these were few ex-Turkish guns, captured in 1912 war). Schneider M.04 guns were ex-Bulgarian, also few in number. Both types had "reserve" status, using non-standard ammo. Slightly better in numbers, but also with non-standard ammo, were ex-Serbian guns M.07 & M.07A guns. These three types of field guns count for about 100+ guns taken together.

Yugoslav infantry divisions (28 of them in 1941 General Mobilization, plus 3 cavalry divisions), had 4 battalion strong artillery regimens. Usually it contained one battalion of mountain guns, two battalions of field guns and one battalion of 100mm light howitzers. Variations existed, however. Divisions type "B" ("B" for "Brdska", i.e. Mountain-type division) had higher persentage of mountain guns, plus mountain types of 100mm howitzers. Some divisions, destined for use in plains, had two field gun battalions plus two 100mm howitzer batallions in their artillery regiments.

Premium field gun was "80mm" M.28 (300 pieces); secondary ones were 75mm M.12 & "80mm" M.05/12 (along few M.17s of the same caliber - Yugoslav "80mm" were ex-Austrian "8-cm", actually 76.5mm caliber). Numbers were 200+ for both models - i.e. about 500 pieces taken together. (Btw, main cavalry model was Schneider M.12 - naturally).
Premium light howitzers were 100mm M.28 (L/25, 72 pieces) and M.14/19 (L/24, 150 pieces). Both used the same ammo, with M.28 main advantage was longer range (one powder load more in common case), plus it could be broken into 3 loads for mountain transport - that's why Germans sometime refer them as "10-cm GbH 317/2(j)". Secondary models were WWI veterans - 100mm M.14 howitzers (L/19.3, awaiting modernization into M.14/19 standard) and 100mm M.16 (L/20, mountain type) howitzers. (All 100mm howitzers were Skoda manufacture) Small number of 120mm Schneiders were in reserve.

Yugoslav Armies (be aware - there are no "corps" in 1941 Yugo Army!) each had one artillery regiment of "heavy" (actually medium) artillery. All guns were WWI models, horse- or (more common) ox-driven. Used were 105mm long guns (M.13 Schnneider and M.15/26 Skodas), 150mm Skoda M.14 & M.14/16 (real caliber 149mm) and 155mm Schneider heavy howitzers.

Elite artillery were motorized heavy artillery regiments under Suprime HQ. They used modern medium artillery (105mm & 150mm M.36 Skodas) plus the only real Yugoslav heavy artillery (150mm long guns, 220mm & 305mm heavy mortars).

Regards,
Edge / Antic
Last edited by The Edge on 23 Jun 2009 11:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 23 Jun 2009 10:17

nuyt wrote:
Dili wrote:150/35 cann. da pos. Rheinmetall 4 Jugoslavia


Any info on these guns?


Fourth gun on German "beute" list I posted above? :roll: (courtesy of Jopaerya) :wink:
Last edited by The Edge on 23 Jun 2009 11:20, edited 1 time in total.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 23 Jun 2009 11:20

Hi Guys, many thanks for the info, I have a picture of a 150/35 gun, but I have no idea how to transfer it to this site, I will have to wait for the family to get home to ask for help.
One for you Edge, was all of the artillery horse drawn except for the elite units ?.
Thanks again Yan.

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by nuyt » 23 Jun 2009 11:28

ok, that 15 cm Marinegeschuess L35? Hmm, sounds like a vintage gun. Most naval guns had much longer barrels. But if it was named Rheinmetall it cant be that old.

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by nuyt » 23 Jun 2009 11:30

nuyt wrote:ok, that 15 cm Marinegeschuess L35? Hmm, sounds like a vintage gun. Most naval guns had much longer barrels. But if it was named Rheinmetall it cant be that old.

ok looking forward to that picture Yan!

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