Yugoslave artillery 1941

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YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#151

Post by YAN » 09 Sep 2013, 16:07

Hi, I had a look at my Royal Yugoslavian Army (1941) data over the weekend, and found a few missing gaps, a lot of the data was compiled in 2009 with the kind help of The Edge and Dili and I was so engrossed I forgot to ask them some basic questions. Starting with the Anti-Tank Guns, the Yugoslav Army had two modern types; 3.7cm M.1937 (Skoda A4) and 4.7cm M.1936 (Skoda A5), here is the missing (or gaps) data.

3.7cm M.1937 (Skoda A4);
What year did the Yugoslav Army first receive them from the Czechs?
What was the total Length of the weapon?
What was the shell weight of the HE round used (I have the AP round as 0.850 kg / MV 750 m/s)
Gun Sights?

4.7cm M.1936 (Skoda A5);
What year did the Yugoslav Army first receive them from the Czechs?
What was the total Length of the weapon?
Was the Breech a Semi-Automatic Vertical Sliding Block?
What was the shell weight of the HE round used (I have the AP round as 1.44 kg / MV 775 m/s)
Gun Sights?

I hope someone can help, because I have spent nearly two days on line and none of this data is out there.

Yan.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#152

Post by ltcolonel » 09 Sep 2013, 23:46

Yugoslav army 47 mm M.38 had factory designation 4,7 cm vzor 38. It is diferent gun it is not 4 cm KPUV vzor 36. First receive from the Czechs in 1938. Yugoslav army 37 mm M.39 had factory designation 3,7 cm vzor 37. First receive from the Czechs in 1939 but most have been delivered in 1940.


YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#153

Post by YAN » 10 Sep 2013, 10:22

Thank you Lt. Colonel

Yan.

aca_p
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#154

Post by aca_p » 10 Sep 2013, 15:55

I am not sure about the number of AT guns, data from the yugo military encyclopedia ~400 47mm guns and ~400 37mm guns sounds too high.

In 1940 there were 26 + 3 AT battalions (each with 12 guns), I know that those battalions at the end of 1940 were reorganized as the AT companies (with 12 guns); even if few more AT companies were organized, and some guns were assigned to the replacement/fortress troops the number of 400+400 guns sounds too high...

the same with the number of mortals 1600 new and 700 old.
4+2 for 92 inf. regiments, 1+1 for each replacement battalion, ~40 for each of 2 alpine brigades, 8 mortars battalions, some for fortress troops, some for the replacement troop under Ministry of army/navy, all that is maybe 1000 or so....

aca

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#155

Post by ltcolonel » 10 Sep 2013, 16:55

In january 1941. Yugoslav army had 560 AT guns 37 mm M 39 and 47 mm M 38 with a horse drawn. We don't know how many the Yugoslav army had these guns with motorized traction. In theory AT company on army level had motorized AT guns. Some of these company had certainly motorized AT guns but not sure if they all had.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#156

Post by ltcolonel » 10 Sep 2013, 16:59

In april 1941 Yugoslav army had and 48 Italian AT gun 47 mm M 35 (Yugolsav designation 47 mm M 40) and 48 AT gun 76,5 mm M 40 (for designation I am not sure). AT gun 76,5 mm M 40 was Yugoslav very modern and extensive modifications old austro hungarian field gun 76,5 mm M 05/8.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#157

Post by YAN » 11 Sep 2013, 10:24

Lt. Colonel, I have two 76.5mm Field Guns in my Yugoslav Artillery folder;

8cm M.05/08 Field Gun
Data: 270 bought from Czechoslovakia (Skoda Vz.5/8)
Calibre: 76.5mm L/30
Weight: 1.065 kg
Elevation: -7° to +18°
Traverse: 7°
Shell Weight: 6.68 kg
Muzzle Velocity: 433 m/s
Rate of Fire: 8 r.p.m.
Maximum Range: 7000m
Crew: 7
Traction: horse Drawn if field gun / broken into three loads if mountain gun

8cm M.1928 Field Gun
Data: 300 bought from Czechoslovakia (Skoda EF)
Calibre: 76.5mm L/40
Weight: 1.816 kg
Elevation: -8° to +80°
Traverse: 8°
Shell Weight: 8 kg
Muzzle Velocity: 600 m/s
Rate of Fire: 10 r.p.m.
Maximum Range: 13.505m
Crew: 7
Traction: Horse Drawn

As you can see, none are called M.40 so maybe the AT Gun you mentioned is a modified version of one of these.

There was also a third Gun called the 8cm M.17 (Skoda M.1917), I will see if I have any data on it.

Yan.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#158

Post by ltcolonel » 11 Sep 2013, 16:04

Yugoslavia in 1927. had around 1000 field guns 76,5 mm M 05/8 and M.17. Part of them was modified in AA guns 76,5 mm M 05/28 and 76,5 mm M 05/32. Probably in 1939 in VTZ Kragujevac modified 76,5 mm M 05/8 in AT gun. It was vera extensive modfications very similarly with later German modifications 75 mm M 97/38. Gun had new carriage for motorized traction and muzzle brake. Mass modification of old cannons began in 1940 but by April 1941 only 48 was completed.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#159

Post by YAN » 11 Sep 2013, 21:36

Lt. Colonel, have you got any data on the 76.5mm M.1940 Anti-Tank Gun, I have searched Wiki but to no avail, is it under a different name?

Yan.

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MarkoZ
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#160

Post by MarkoZ » 11 Sep 2013, 22:08

This m40 76.5mm Anti tank project has I believe solved a mystery for me! The Royal Yugoslav Army negotiated a contract with Chevrolet for 400 Trucks to Cary/tow some weapon.
I have always wondered what, could it be the case that they were destined to tow the M40 Anti tank gun?

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#161

Post by ltcolonel » 12 Sep 2013, 00:41

I'll try to get a photo of the gun from the Military Museum. This is the only picture that I know to exist. By April 1941, they were not exist manauls and range tables because it was not commenced development of a new APC shell. Yugoslav steelworks could not reach the quality of Skoda steel and Krupp did not want to license its steel for APC shell. Yugoslav steelworks had Krupp technology. It was only in January 1941 Krupp agreed to grant a license. Therefore, these guns temporarily use the old halfpiercing M28 shells a early version of APHE.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#162

Post by ltcolonel » 12 Sep 2013, 00:47

The Royal Yugoslav Army negotiated a contract with Chevrolet for 2000 Trucks: complete 400 trucks, 600 trucks in parts and the most important components for another 1000 truck. Obtained the license to manufacture these trucks in Kragujevac.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#163

Post by YAN » 12 Sep 2013, 10:41

Lt. Colonel, its funny you mention 75mm and 76mm (8cm) shells, I got this data from ''The Edge'' about four years ago;

75mm L/15 Skoda M.15
(range 7.1 km with 6.5 kg HE shell)
(range 7 km with 6.6 kg HE-shrapnel shell)

75mm L/18 Skoda M.28
(range 8.7 km with 6.3 kg HE shell)
(range 8.5 km with 6.3 kg shrapnel shell)

75mm L/25.4 Schneider M.12
(range 7.5 km with 5.5 kg HE shell)
(range 6.5 km with 7.24 kg shrapnel shell)

80mm L/30 AZF Wien M.5/8
(range 8.4 km with 5.5 kg HE shell)
(range 7.3 km with 5.65 kg shrapnel shell)

80mm L/40 Skoda M.28
(range 13.1 km with 8 kg HE shell)
(range 12.5 km with 8 kg shrapnel shell)
(AA & AP shells 8 kg weight)

I don't know about any half-piercing Shells (M.28) or AP Shells issued to these guns.

Yan.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#164

Post by ltcolonel » 12 Sep 2013, 14:28

Exactly calibar for 8 cm guns was 76,5 mm. Data given by a friend of mine Ivica (Edge) are not always accurate. Field gun 8 cm (not 80 mm) M 28 hadn't AP shell already halfpiercing M 28 forerunner APHE shell. Between 1927 and 1930, all Krups and Schneiders 75 mm guns in Jugoslav army been refurbished to use shells of French cannon 75 mm M897. For them, in Czechoslovakia developed special half piercing shell 75 mm M 28 virtually identical with halfpiercing shell 8 cm Skoda M28 (or 76,5 mm M28).
Last edited by ltcolonel on 12 Sep 2013, 14:35, edited 2 times in total.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

#165

Post by ltcolonel » 12 Sep 2013, 14:31

Filed guns 8 cm M 05/8 (or 76,5 mm M 05/8) and 8 cm M 17 were after modificatonsin in AT guns used shells by field gun 8 cm M28 Skoda.

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