Yugoslave artillery 1941

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aca_p
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by aca_p » 10 Oct 2013 10:28

regarding the motorized artillery regiments,

there were 5 of them (all under the supreme command):

114, 115 equipped with the long guns 105mm M36 and howitzers 150mm M36
(2 regiments x 3 battalions x 3 batteries x 4 guns )

and 111, 112, 113 equipped with the long guns 150mm M28 and heavy mortars 220mm and 305mm
(3 regiments x 3 battalions x 2-3 batteries x 2 guns)

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 14 Oct 2013 14:00

I would say that the main Artillery piece in the long Gun Regiments would be the M.36 Howitzer.

105mm M.36 Gun = 24
150mm M.36 Howitzer = 48
Total 72 x Weapons; they may be two Batteries of Howitzers to every one Battery of Guns.

The other Motorised Heavy Regiments would have been equipped along the lines what aca-p said, but I don’t know there exact structure.

150mm M.28 Gun = 20
220mm M.28 Heavy Mortar = 10
305mm M.11 & 16 Heavy Mortars = 14

I was looking at the number of German Divisions stationed in the Balkans in June 1944, and the total came to 21. So if there were two in Albania and two on Crete and another on Rhodes, that would leave 16 split between Yugoslavia and Greece, I am not sure if eight or nine of these Divisions were stationed in Greece and the rest in Yugoslavia.

One last note; has any one got a break down on a Yugoslav MG Company? All I have is that it contained 12 x MGs, I don’t know if these were all 7.92mm M.37s or not and each gun had a crew of between three or five men, can anyone help please.

Ian.

aca_p
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by aca_p » 14 Oct 2013 20:55

the infantry battalion's MG company had 8 MG and 6 smaller MG, organized in 2 platoons (each with 4 squad (each with 1 MG)) and 1 platoon with 6 smaller MG (3 squad (each with 2 MG)) and "HQ" and support parts.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 15 Oct 2013 10:13

Hello aca-p, I have placed your data in what I think the Infantry Battalion MG Company may look like.

Royal Yugoslav Machine Gun Company 1941

Company HQ
1 x Light Platoon:
3 x LMG Squads with 2 x LMGs
2 x Heavy Platoons each:
4 x MG Squads with 1 x HMG
Supply Platoon

I have no idea of the numbers of Troops, NCOs & Officers each platoon had, or how many to a gun crew (LMGs x 2 / MMGs x 5 ?)

LMGs:
7.92mm M.37 LMG (Vz.30j): total 15.000
7.92mm ZB-26: total 1.500
MMGs:
7.92mm M.40 MMG (ZB-53): total 1000
8mm Schwartzlose MMG: total ?

Thanks for the help,
Yan.

aca_p
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by aca_p » 15 Oct 2013 13:34

MG platoon had 1 officer, 2 sgt and 4 squads (each had 1 sub sgt, 1 corp. (gunner), 5 soldiers MG crew and 3 grooms for 3 horses)

small MG platoon had 1 officer, 3 squads (each had 1 sub sgt, 2 corp. (gunners), 7 soldiers MG crews and 3 grooms for 3 horses)

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 15 Oct 2013 14:32

Hello aca-p and thank you for the data, how does this look to you.

Royal Yugoslav Machine Gun Company 1941

Company HQ
2 x Officers (Pistols)
1 x Sergeant (Pistol)

2 x MG Platoons each:
Platoon HQ:
1 x Officer (Pistol)
2 x Sergeants (Pistols)

4 x MMG Squads each:
1 x Sub-Sergeant (Pistol)
1 x Corporal (Gunner)(Pistol)
1 x Private (Loader)(Pistol)
5 x Private (Ammo bearers)(Rifles)
3 x Grooms (Rifles)
3 x Pack Horses
1 x 7.92mm M.40 MMG

1 x Small Platoon:
Platoon HQ:
1 x Officer (Pistol)
3 x LMG Squads each:
1 x Sub-Sergeant (Pistol)
2 x Corporals (Gunners)(Pistols)
2 x Privates (Loaders)(Pistols)
5 x Privates (Ammo Bearers)(Rifles)
3 x Grooms (Rifles)
3 x Pack Horses
2 x 7.92mm M.37 LMGs

Supply Platoon ?

Thanks again for your help.
Yan.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by ltcolonel » 15 Oct 2013 15:21

Yan this is the official formation, the reality was different. In reality Maschinengewehr Schwarzlose M.07/12 and M.07/16, but in calibre 7,9 mm was the most coomon. Many companies had old Maxim MG in many different models but all in caliber 7,9 mm.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 15 Oct 2013 15:48

Hello Lt. Colonel, would you swap the M.40 MMG for the Schwartzlose for a more realistic comparison. I have no stats for the Schwartzlose in 7.92mm only 8mm, would there be a big difference?
Thanks for the help Sir.

Yan.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 15 Oct 2013 16:21

The Schwartzlose was very common in WW2, the old type water cooled big heavy machine gun looked like a thing from the past, but a lot of nations still used them until the end of the war.

Britain: Vickers .303
USA: Browning M.1917 .30
Russia: Maxim PM M.1910 7.62mm
Italy: Fiat-Revelli Modello 1914 6.5mm
Norway: m/29 6.5mm (Colt-Browning)

Yan.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by ltcolonel » 16 Oct 2013 00:04

Yugoslav machine gun 7,9 mm M40 was Zbrojovka 7,9 mm ZB-53. Yugoslavia had 1000 machine guns ZB-53 delivered in 1940. Yugoslav modification machine gun Schwartzlose used standard German SS bullet. Outside there is almost no difference between original Schwartzlose and Yugoslav modification except sight.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 16 Oct 2013 10:50

Good morning Lt. Colonel, if I used my stats for the Schwartzlose and added the data for the 7.92x57 Mauser, would that work?

7.92x57mm Mauser (Gewehr Patrone 98 sS)
Bullet Weight: 12.8g
Total Cartridge Weight 27g
Muzzle Velocity: 808 m/s

did the Yugoslav army have a designation for the Schwartzlose?

Thank You.

Yan.

ltcolonel
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by ltcolonel » 16 Oct 2013 17:41

Yugoslav army have oficial designation
first
mitraljez 8 mm M. 7/12 Švarcloze and laki mitraljez 8 mm M. 07/16 Švarcloze (machine gun 8 mm M. 7/12 Schwartzlose and light machine gun 8 mm M. 7/16 Schwartzlose)
later (after 1934/5)
mitraljez 7,9 mm M. 7/12 Švarcloze and laki mitraljez 7,9 mm M. 07/16 Švarcloze (machine gun 7,9 mm M. 7/12 Schwartzlose and light machine gun 7,9 mm M. 7/16 Schwartzlose)
7,9 mm M. 7/12 have considerably lower Muzzle Velocity due to the relatively short barrel of machine guns. Currently I'm not at hand range table for 7,9 mm M. 7/12 but in a few days I will give you the correct information.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 16 Oct 2013 19:06

Thank you Lt. Colonel
I shall await your information.

Yan.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 18 Oct 2013 11:41

Hi aca-p, would the support platoon of the Battalion MG Company look the same as the one in the Infantry Companies?

support part:
1 sergeant (pistol)
1 sub sergeant (pistol)
5 soldiers batmen
2 soldiers cooks
1 soldier clerk
12 soldiers grooms for 16 pack horses

And would the whole Company have a HQ consisting of a Captain (mounted with pistol).

Yan.

aca_p
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by aca_p » 18 Oct 2013 12:47

MG company HQ was like this:

1 captain I class (horse, pistol)

1 sgt (pistol)
3 corp. replacement gunners (2 for MG, 1 for small MG) (3 pistols)
2 corp. for distance measurement (2 carbines )
1 soldier MG mechanic
1 soldier farrier
6 soldiers replacement MG crew (4 for MG, 2 for small MG) (6 carbines)
4 soldiers replacement grooms (4 carbines)
4 soldiers messengers (4 rifles)
1 soldier groom for captain's horse
3 soldiers wounded carriers
3 soldiers grooms for 3 pack horses (for ammo)
1 soldier medic (pistol)
1 soldier veterinarian assistant



also MG crew was 1 gunner (corp) and 5 soldiers, not 1 corp and 6 soldiers as you wrote....

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