Yugoslave artillery 1941

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Dili
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 24 Jun 2009 15:13

First the 9cm L/35 - I'm not positive about this one; Is it Italian designation? If so, this could be ex-Austrian "9cm K7" (see info bellow), converted for AA use (probably the same ones from my data about one Yugo naval battery of 90mm AA guns, ex A-H). Italian designation for newer 9cm K12 (L/45) was "90/42".
Apparently so, i have read in other places 90/35 too. It is probably the non modified version.
8/30 - Obvious Italian marking; could be Austrian "9cm M.07" (see last one at: http://www.moesslang.net/kuk-kanonen.htm - lot of Austro-Hungarian fortress and AA artillery) or similar German weapon: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_88mm-35_skc00.htm (or both? Austrian Navy did bought Krupp designs) Yugoslavia got some obsolete German material via War Reparations, including ships - so these Krupp guns could be taken from one of these.
Is the 9cm M07 88mm? I never saw Italians making shortcuts concerning gun calibres, they put 149mm not 15cm or 150mm. if the M.07 is really 90mm and not Krupp i would not consider it. It seems more probable that 88/35.
... 66/45 cann. c.a. Skoda - Austrian 7cm L/50 K10 & K16 (66mm L/50 Yugoslavia) - http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNAust_27-50_Skoda.htm
Yep the anti-ballon guns(BAG) i refered initally. It seems interesting that only BAG guns are listed. Not the TAG with low elevation for coastal defense.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 24 Jun 2009 15:17

Hi Edge, I have got it right this time,
75mmL/18 M.1928 Mountain Gun
75mmL/25 M.1912 Field Gun
80mmL/30 M.05/08 Field Gun
80mmL/30 M.1917 Field Gun
80mmL/40 M.1928 Field Gun
was the 75mm M.28 MTG used more then the 65mm M.06 and 75mm M.15.
Yan.

Dili
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 24 Jun 2009 15:20

YAN

1-click in "upload attachment" below the window were you write your post.

2-click in choose and select your file in your computer

3-click add file

4-click place inline or something like that, can't see it That puts a command in message area so don't erase anything.


The problem with last message is that you probably erased the part i have written in the end: Image

See your image even appears in my post meaning that you uploaded it to the system.

You certainly erased this: g[/img] from last part of your image link.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 24 Jun 2009 16:34

Thanks Dili, I got annoyed at first because everyone on this site have been so helpful so when I found that I could not paste these pictures I felt that I have let you down, I hope its the Gun you are looking for.
Yan.

Dili
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 24 Jun 2009 19:35

No problem we aren't born with knowledge. It was Nuyt that asked for the photo.I have no knowledge to say what is this new gun, but if it says M1930 it means a recent gun only 9 years from WW2.

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 25 Jun 2009 09:14

Dili wrote:Is the 9cm M07 88mm? I never saw Italians making shortcuts concerning gun calibres, they put 149mm not 15cm or 150mm. if the M.07 is really 90mm and not Krupp i would not consider it. It seems more probable that 88/35.
I agree. :oops:

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 25 Jun 2009 09:45

YAN wrote:Hi Edge, I have got it right this time,
75mmL/18 M.1928 Mountain Gun
75mmL/25 M.1912 Field Gun
80mmL/30 M.05/08 Field Gun
80mmL/30 M.1917 Field Gun (low number in Yugoslav armament - best to ignore)
80mmL/40 M.1928 Field Gun
was the 75mm M.28 MTG used more then the 65mm M.06 and 75mm M.15.
If you want "1st class artillery" division, go for something like
- 12 x 75mm L/18 M.1928 Mountain Gun
- 24 x 80mm L/40 M.1928 Field Gun
- 12 x 100mm L/25 M.1928 Lt. Howitzer

Low end would be:
- 12 x 65mm L/20 M.6 (or 75mm L/15 M.15) Mountain Gun
- 24 x 75mm L/25 M.12 (or 80mm L/30 M.05/08) Field Gun
- 12 x 100mm L/19.3 M.14 (or 100mm L/20 M.16 Mountain) Lt. Howitzers

Majority of divisions fall somewhere inbetween ("something old, something new").

Plains type ("super") division:
- 24 x 80mm L/40 M.1928 Field Guns
- 24 x 100mm L/24 M.1914/19 Lt. Howitzers
(I haven't put more capable M.1928 howitzer here, because its 3-loads carrying capability would be more more useful in some mountainous terrain (facing Italians); also, these howitzers were less numerous - no reason to put 24 of total 72 in just one division; as for the chahracteristics, they were more or less similar, with 1km more range benefit for M.28).
Note also that "plains" division would probably have Hungarians (no one expected Germans! :? ) as opposite side, so no reason to put the "premium" guns there. So, "plains division" could be also:
- 24 x 80mm L/30 M.05/08 Field Guns
- 24 x 100mm L/19.3 M.14 Lt. Howitzers
(and that's precisely what Hungarians would place also! :D )

About the M.28 mountain gun - as number suggests, they made only a third of mountain guns, so you couldn't tell they were "more used" then others - in terms of 1941 War divisions. However, elite mountain grups (facing Italian Alpine troops) used them exclusively; peacetime (cadre) divisions used them in much higher percentage that their number would imply; all divisions alloted with this model valuabled them more than "just a mountain gun" - there was even a saying in Yugoslav Army "Our best field gun is M.28 mountain gun", thanks to its range, accuracy and superb reliability. :D
(With such high reputation in pre-WWII Yugoslav Army, it is no surprise that Yugoslavs based their postwar M.1948 mountain gun on "old" M.1928)

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 25 Jun 2009 11:57

Thanks Edge, thanks to your help we have got a good platfom to work from.
Sorry Dili, I got my replys mixed up.
To Nuyt, I think this gun may have come off a battle ship?.
when I was re-searching the Hungarians I came across a Danish (Madsen) 20mm 33M AA gun.
Stats:
Calibre: 20mmL/??????
Traction: ???????
Crew: 4 ?????
Weight in actiopn: 260kg
Elevation: -5 to +85
Traverse: 360
MV: 730 m/s
Shell weight: 0.29kg
Rate of fire: 125 rpm
Ceiling: 2.120m
but when I was looking through the Danish stuff I have got it only came up with these,
20mmL/60 M.1928 ATG
20mmL/60 M.1938 AAG
Was this gun only used as an export weapon and not excepted by the Danish army ?.
Yan.

YAN
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by YAN » 25 Jun 2009 14:50

Sorry Edge, I forgot to ask you for ranges for these weapons,

81mm M.1931 Mortar: 3000m
65mm M.06: 6.500m
75mm M.28: ?
75mm M.12: ?
80mm M.28: ?
100mm M.16: ?
100mm M.14: ?
100mm M.14/19: ?
100mm M.28: ?
105mm M.13: ?
150mm HV M.14/16: ?
150mm M.28: 23.800m

The 100mm Guns were used by a lot of countrys and each seem to have there own ranges
Thanks Yan.

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 25 Jun 2009 15:28

YAN wrote: The 100mm Guns were used by a lot of countrys and each seem to have there own ranges.
That's probably bacause their industries produced various types of shells.
(Italians were particulary interesting, for their ammo made for ex-AustHung guns)

Data tomorrow - mainly from 1935 Yugoslav Military Academy Brochure. :wink:

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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 25 Jun 2009 15:38

The Edge can you provide what are those "plain", mountains Divisons?

I have this dispositions about Royal Yugoslavian Army from a DTIC paper:
DTIC1941_Operation.jpg
DTIC1941_Legend2.jpg
DTIC1941_Legend3.jpg
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Dili
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 25 Jun 2009 15:42

Last legend
DTIC1941_Legend4.jpg
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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 25 Jun 2009 15:49

All three musketeers present at the same time? :lol:

Sorry, folks, I'm finishing my office time - going home to content your needs with my home literature! :D

Dili
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by Dili » 25 Jun 2009 16:08

No problem, take your time! :D

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The Edge
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Re: Yugoslave artillery 1941

Post by The Edge » 26 Jun 2009 13:51

Dili wrote:No problem, take your time! :D
He would take his time, bacuse the idiot :oops: ) mixed the only two USB Flash Disks he has - and picked the wrong one! ("Whata misteka to meka!" 8O ) Only excuse - it's Friday double-13th! :lol: (i.e. 26th)

However, waiting would be revarding... :)

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