Yugoslave artillery 1941

[The Edge]

Reading through this post, it looks like the Jugoslav Army only had the 30,5 cm M.11/30 and no M.11. Thus, any picture of a M.11-looking howitzer in 1941 in Jugoslavia would be a M.11/30 model. Would that be a correct assumption?

Emmanuel

Yes - no 305mm Skodas in Yugoslav armament before 1930.
(Only heavy mortars before 1928 were 5 old 210mm ex-Austro-Hungarian M.73s)

[Dili]

So where have you been hidden, beach ?

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

So I understand that Yugoslavia buy these weapons around 1928-30. But, who was the seller? Perhaps Czechoslovakia?? Why they were called 305mm M11/30? I do not see any difference with the original model M11. Perhaps the munition more modern.

On the other hand, is very strange for me that Yugoslavia purchased these weapons as obsolete in 1930. Around the same time Yugoslavia also bought the Skoda 220mm M28, a gun that was similar but much more modern. I think these weapons should remain in the territory of Yugoslavia after the First World War. This is more logical. Perhaps around 1930 these weapons were modernized with more modern shells.

These are two other images of a 30.5cm Skoda (M11/30 I supposed) barrel trailer captured by german troops in Yugoslavia in 1941. There are not differences with original M11.
Source: Ebay

Regards Sturm78

[The Edge]

So where have you been hidden, beach ?

Unfortunately, more "bitch" than "beach" hidings.

So I understand that Yugoslavia buy these weapons around 1928-30. But, who was the seller? Perhaps Czechoslovakia?? Why they were called 305mm M11/30? I do not see any difference with the original model M11. Perhaps the munition more modern.
On the other hand, is very strange for me that Yugoslavia purchased these weapons as obsolete in 1930. Around the same time Yugoslavia also bought the Skoda 220mm M28, a gun that was similar but much more modern. I think these weapons should remain in the territory of Yugoslavia after the First World War. This is more logical. Perhaps around 1930 these weapons were modernized with more modern shells.

In 1928 Yugoslavia got a massive 1.000.000.000 Czech Koruna loan from Czechoslovakian State for purchasing the armament. Conditions were: Yugoslavia buy armament from Czech factories, Czech state compensates its local manufactures, Yugoslavia pays the loan in next 6 years. (Btw, still not paid in full by 1938 ).
At first, Yugoslavia planned to buy more mountain & field artillery. Than it was noticed that 80mm M.28 "universal gun" (EF) was not useful in AA role, plus Army also asked for more heavy artillery. So, plans were modified, less M.28A mountain guns were bought, M.28A AA guns included and the problem with heavy artillery was solved by purchasing surplus 305mm Skodas from Czechoslovak Army depots. Two factors were crucial: 1) Czechs were willing to get rid of their surplus/old guns at bargain prices; 2) No delay penalty, since more modern 220mm M.28 ordnances were not ordered before, so their production would took extra time & money (because lesser number purchased), the very two things Yugoslav side tended to avoid.

Regards,

Edge / Antic

[Sturm78]

Hi The Edge,

Thank you very much for your information. Yugoslavia bought these heavy howitzers to Czechoslovakia in 1928-30 and this explains its designation of 305mm M11-30. But I am still not convinced whether these guns suffered some modernization before its delivery to Yugoslavia or not.

On the other hand I found this image on Ebay. I think it is a Yugoslavian 8cm Skoda M28 destroyed (7.65cm FK 304j) but I'm not sure.

Regards Sturm78

[The Edge]

I agree that 305s were not "modernized" - not much sense in such investment - probably only some slight adjustments. :roll: (don't know for sure )

It could be Yugoslav gun - it have wooden spoked wheels. However, this is not definitive (I saw so many guns with changed wheels). It's a pity that the barrel mouth is not visible - Yugoslav guns had muzzle brakes.

[Dili]

Been busy.

Unfortunately, more "bitch" than "beach" hidings.

Like Verdi says: La Donna è Mobile...

I have posted this earlier in page 5, any comments?

"I'll be right saying that the detachments were the units that resisted more against Axis because they had most of the troops ? I am assuming that they got most the forces that could be found in ongoing mobilization process. The HQ's faced with an uneven arriving of soldiers to unit bases, ad-hoc groups were made.
I think that detachments were made just before War or even in War, so temporary, but i might be wrong.

Edit: - the Hvy. Artillery Regiment i have in 5th Army is the elusive 113th.
- This kind of informations, like the story of Banat Detachment are hidden in vaults in Belgrade or they are forever lost?"

[The Edge]

I'm back from holiday, but my colleague from department went on; so, I'm working for 1 1/2 men and lacking time for "more pleasant work".

"I'll be right saying that the detachments were the units that resisted more against Axis because they had most of the troops ? I am assuming that they got most the forces that could be found in ongoing mobilization process. The HQ's faced with an uneven arriving of soldiers to unit bases, ad-hoc groups were made.
I think that detachments were made just before War or even in War, so temporary, but i might be wrong.

These "detachements" (in Serbian "Odred") were semi-permanent, ad-hoc groups, organized in the time of war for specialised task (rarely) or to defend certain part of front (more common). As a rule, they consisted of troops of lesser quality (best troops were in operative divisions), but the start of April War 1941 was an exception - because of the lack of mobility and poor communications, some detachements got 1st class troops available on given territory (upon the arrival of its parent commands and replacement reserve troops, which were mobilized at later date).
If the war lasted longer, detachements on "quiet" sectors would had only 2nd & 3rd class troops, but the detachements where fighting is the most intense might include more regular troops, even the whole divisions!
(For example, in early 1915 Serbian "Odbrana Beograda odred" ("Belgrade Defense Detachement") had two divisions in its command for reinforcement/counterattack - plus 4 more inf. rgms - because the nearest Army HQ was in the move; as it turned out, this detachement completed the task - the liberation of Belgrade - before the mentioned army was in planned position (when most of the operative troops would be back to its command).

Edit: - the Hvy. Artillery Regiment i have in 5th Army is the elusive 113th.
- This kind of informations, like the story of Banat Detachment are hidden in vaults in Belgrade or they are forever lost?"

This 113th is really a pain in the _ss, by the number it should be "Very-Heavy Arty Rgm", but I found it mentioned as regular (Army) heavy arty rgm. Will write a letter to one person I know in Army Military History Dept.

Unfortunately, some arhive IS lost - thanks to 1999 NATO bombing of one insignificant military building.

[Dili]

I'm back from holiday, but my colleague from department went on; so, I'm working for 1 1/2 men and lacking time for "more pleasant work".

Hehe.

These "detachements" (in Serbian "Odred") were semi-permanent, ad-hoc groups, organized in the time of war for specialised task (rarely) or to defend certain part of front (more common). As a rule, they consisted of troops of lesser quality (best troops were in operative divisions), but the start of April War 1941 was an exception

That is what i tought. On a side note note some critics say that employing the old strategy plan of sending the formations to the border was one of reasons for the easy fall, but it seems to me that mobilisation was not very successful and there weren't many troops neither mobility. What is your opinion?

This 113th is really a pain in the _ss, by the number it should be "Very-Heavy Arty Rgm", but I found it mentioned as regular (Army) heavy arty rgm. Will write a letter to one person I know in Army Military History Dept.
Unfortunately, some arhive IS lost - thanks to 1999 NATO bombing of one insignificant military building.

Sorry to hear that. Good that you have a contact there. When you have time please bring that info about Kotor.

[Sturm78]

Hi all,

I found this image on Ebay. I think the image shows a 30.5cm Skoda M11 barrel trailer and an Austro-Daimler M17 tractor of Yugoslav Army captured by germans in 1941. In the background there is a 30.5cm Skoda M16 carriage trailer probably ex-Yugoslav also

Regards Sturm78

[Dili]

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1271

says:

8.35 cm Flak 22 (t) (Ex-czech 8,35 cm Vz37, many also captured in Yugoslavia)

How many were they? In my list i don't have it in Army or Air Defense.

[The Edge]

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1271

says:

8.35 cm Flak 22 (t) (Ex-czech 8,35 cm Vz37, many also captured in Yugoslavia)

How many were they? In my list i don't have it in Army or Air Defense.

That's new for me :roll: - 8,35-cm Vz. 37 ??? - Sounds like a mismatch.

[ltcolonel]

No 8,35-cm Vz. 37 in Yugoslav service. 8,35 cm Vz.22 had Yugoslav Navy like standard mediuma AA guns.
Yugoslav AA guns had caliber 75 mm (M. 37 Skoda) and 76,5 mm (M. 05/28, M. 05/32, M. 28 and M. 36).
The Edge is very corect only is wrong in designation Yugoslav AT gun 47 mm. Yugoslav official designation was 47 mm M. 37 Skoda. That is diferent guns by 47 mm Vz. 36. Second AT gun was 37 mm M. 38 Skoda (czeh 37 mm Vz. 37).
Sorry for my English.

[The Edge]

Yugoslav official designation was 47 mm M. 37 Skoda. That is diferent guns than 47 mm Vz. 36. Second AT gun was 37 mm M. 38 Skoda (Czech 37 mm Vz. 37).

What about the story I heard in museum - about the 47mm Italian ATGs in Yugoslav armament? :roll:

[Dili]

Thanks i found that strange, specially the "many" nevertheless Italians captured 4x 84/55 M 31 probably ship ones or some land ones to train crew ships.