Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

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106th Art.Reg.(TUR)
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Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by 106th Art.Reg.(TUR) » 25 Jun 2009 22:56

I'll try to give you a little bit of information about Turkish armed vehicles during the 1920'2-1940's.
Armed vehicles were first introduced into the Turkish Army's in 1928, when Renault FT-17 Tanks were acquired from France and given to the disposition of the Infantry Gunnery School in Maltepe/Istanbul. In 1932 several soviet T-26 and T-27 Tanks were purchased. The first armoured unit in the Turkish armed Forecs was founded in 1934 in Luleburgaz,(Armoured Bataillon/Tank Taburu) under the command of major Tahsin Yazici. 64 Soviet T-26 and 34 Soviet BA-6/BA-3 vehicles were acquired for the Bataillon's disposition. In 1937, an armoured brigade was formed there.This developments preparied the foundation of the first armoured regiment (1. Zirhli Alayi) at Luleburgaz in 1940. For that regiment, 100 Renault FT-17 from France, and 16 Vickers light Tanks Mark 6 B were purchased.
In 1942 the 1st Armoured Brigade was rebased from Luleburgaz to the Davutpasa Barracks/Istanbul, and all or most outdated T-26 tanks were discharged.
In 1943 two armoured brigades were founded in Nigde and Selimiye Barracks /Istanbul, the 1st Armoured Brigade at Davutpasa being re-named to 3rd Armoured Brigade. The new brigades were equipped with: 25 US M4 Sherman tanks, 220 M3 Stuart tanks, from the UK 180 Valentine yanks and 150 MK 6 light tanks as well as 60 Bren Universal Gun carrier vehicles were received.
The information was retrieved from Turkish Wikipedia which as its source gave the issues of a military and defense magazine "Savunma ve Havacılık sy. 2000-05, sa.82/83." . (Unfortunately I am temporarily abroad, so I can't check for other sources).

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Jun 2009 07:24

And it makes no reference to the Turkish PzKpfw III and PzKpfw IV? :o

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by bil » 26 Jun 2009 07:29

Wouldn't they have been after WWII? ---bil

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Jun 2009 10:37

bil wrote:Wouldn't they have been after WWII?


If you mean the German tanks, then the answer seems to be no. See, for example:
In 1943 Hitler ordered 56 of these units to be delivered to Turkey. This was done to encourage the Turks to attack the USSR or to cause the Soviets to divert military units to counter a possible Turkish threat. The type delivered had the 5cm L/60 main gun.

Fifteen Ausf G units were delivered to Turkey starting in 1943. Seven were delivered in March and eight more delivered in May. This was done to help encourage Turkey to attack the USSR or to cause the USSR to divert manpower to defend the frontier between the two nations.

From http://www.tankhistory.com/

Or the following information quoted from the Overvalwagen Forum, which comes from Ronald Tarnstrom's book, Balkan Battles:
From 1943 the Germans sent 34 PzKpfw III J ("T.3") and 37 PzKpfw IV H ("T.4") (Note that the Tanks! website says 56 Mk III and 15 Mk IV G, which still comes out to 71 vehicles. Possibly this is the difference between what was promised and what was actually shipped.)

The German tanks were used to form the 6th Tank Regiment:
6th Tank III (Ankara)
HQ 1 T.3, 2 T.4
Tank II
HQ 3 T.4
2 Tank I
HQ 1 T.4
3 platoons x 3 T.4
Tank II
HQ 3 T.3
otherwise as above except all T.3

To continue with the information in Mr. Tarnstrom's book, the remaining period through the end of the war saw a 3rd Armored Division formed in 1944 at Istanbul from the 1st and 6th Regiments.
[...]
The 3rd Armored Divison had one T.3 and two T.4 in its HQ; a recce battalion with a s/c company of 23 Dingos, a tank company with 10 remaining Mk VIBs, and a motorcycle company. The 1st and 6th Regiments were assigned organized as before; a divisional Reserve company with five each T.3 and T.4; a motorized infantry regiment (3 battalions x 4 companies); an artillery regiment as organized in the former 3rd Brigade, an anittank battalion (3 companies x 4 6pdr, an AA battalion with 40mm Bofors and engineer, signal and transport elements


Given that the number of Germans tanks is very significant, it is quite extrange that they are not mentioned in the Turkish Wikipedia. I wonder why. :?

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by Ironmachine » 26 Jun 2009 10:45

By the way, about:

106th Art.Reg.(TUR) wrote:This developments preparied the foundation of the first armoured regiment (1. Zirhli Alayi) at Luleburgaz in 1940. For that regiment, 100 Renault FT-17 from France, and 16 Vickers light Tanks Mark 6 B were purchased.


that same book, Balkan Battles, says:
Sixteen Vickers Mk.VIB and 100 Renault R.35 light tanks arrived in January 1940 and were used to enlarge the Tank Battalion into a Tank Regiment, which became part of an independent Armored Brigade.

It really makes much more sense to buy R.35 tanks instead of FT-17s in 1940...

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by 106th Art.Reg.(TUR) » 26 Jun 2009 20:33

Yes, you are right! Actually the German tanks were mentioned at Wikipedia and I typed it in, but unfortunately due to some mistake that part of my post disappeared.
So, according to that source, Hitler ordered 56 "Panzerkampfwagen 3 J" and 15 "Panzerkampfwagen 4 G" to be send to Turkey.


Still, I would prefer to be able to give you a confirmation for this information supported by traceable sources, but can only do so when I return home. I am aware that p.e. the purchase of outdated FT-17's in 1940 does nor sound very logical, but before checking sources, it is not possible for me to confirm. For the numbers of shipped German tanks, I also noticed the difference in numbers and think that you are right that it might be a difference of promised and actually delivered vehicles.

Best regards

Mehmet

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by nuyt » 27 Jun 2009 21:23

Check out the Turkish armour assortment:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... 2C+1930-45

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Re: Turkish Armoured Units between the 1920's 1940's

Post by Puska 35.M » 11 Jan 2010 17:20

nuyt wrote:Check out the Turkish armour assortment:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... 2C+1930-45


Did Turkey build any of the Praga Artillery Tractors, or were they all imported from the Czechs?

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