Greek Artillery 1941

[The Edge]

Other mentioned guns from Greek Artillery list:

Skoda 75mm L/15 M.1915 mountain gun (captured from either Bulgarians or Turks)
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/7. ... ne_m15.htm

Skoda 149mm L/14 M.1914/16 medium howitzer (captured from either Bulgarians or Turks)
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/15 ... around.htm

152mm British medium howitzer (Allied help from WWI)
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/br ... witzer.htm

Krupp 105mm L/30 M.1904 (Captured from Turks; note that commercial Krupp model, bought by Turks, is slightly different from German Army one)
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/Ge ... kanone.htm

De Bange 120mm L/27 Mle 1978 (Allied help from WWI)
http://www.landships.freeservers.com/12 ... 8_info.htm

[YAN]

Wow what a wealth of knowledge, so much info I cant wait to get my teeth into it, thanks Edge,
one thing is the 75mm schneider-canet m.1908 a field gun or mountain gun, with having such a short calibre it looks like a mountain gun, but I am sure I have seen it as a field gun.
Now I can do some proper work with some reliable info.
Thanks Yan.

[YAN]

Sorry Edge, I got mixed up with the 75mm Schneider-Danglies M.1908 mountain gun and the 75mm M.1908 Schneider-Canet Field Gun.
I agree with over the 85mm field gun, I have only come across one other 85mm and that was Russian so it makes a change to find such a unique artillery piece.
Thanks Yan.

[The Edge]

I have only come across one other 85mm and that was Russian so it makes a change to find such a unique artillery piece.

One??? I know for Russian two AA models, M.1939 (52-K) & M.1944 (KS-12A), few naval AA models, two "divisional" field guns (Y-10 & D-44), semi-SPG AT model (SD-44), plus lot of tank gun models (F-30, F-39, D-5T, ZiS-S-53, D-70, etc) - all in 85mm caliber. There is also Czech vz. 52 ATG and Chinese 85mm Type 62-85TC gun for Type 62 & Type 63 light tanks. (I probably missed a few http://www.battlefield.ru/en/tank-armament.html )

Russian models:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/85_mm_air_ ... 939_(52-K)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... osef-2.jpg
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussi ... 52_90k.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/85_mm_divisional_gun_D-44
http://www.battlefield.ru/content/view/109/53/lang,ru/
http://www.battlefield.ru/en/tank-armam ... zis53.html
Czech vz. 52
http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/tit ... on/t/42955
Chinese Type 62-85TC 85mm
http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type62.asp

Always ready for more fun,
Edge / Antic

[YAN]

have you heard of this rare beast, 84mm FK 97 (Krupp) Field Gun, used by the Norwegians in 1940 ?.
while I on line I have a question over the 105mm mle 1919 mountain Howitzer, is it a L/11 Barrel.

I was on armies of the world web site last night and I could only find 37mm ATGs in the Greek TO&E and nothing about 14mm Boyes ATRs, did the Greeks have any AT shells or AT capebilities to there field and mountain guns.

Thanks Yan.

[The Edge]

have you heard of this rare beast, 84mm FK 97 (Krupp) Field Gun, used by the Norwegians in 1940 ?

I believe that the only mystery here is how m/1887 field gun became "97". By 1897 Norwegians already experimented with quick-firing guns (Norwegian Schneider-Canet m/1896).
http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/norge/ ... rence.html
http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Arti/prewar/index.html

while I on line I have a question over the 105mm mle 1919 mountain Howitzer, is it a L/11 Barrel.

French data is L/12.4 (Italians gave L/11 designation to their captured/bought guns)

I was on armies of the world web site last night and I could only find 37mm ATGs in the Greek TO&E and nothing about 14mm Boyes ATRs

I suspect that Boys ATRs came after the start of Italian-Greek war, as British help. (Before the war - i.e. late 1930s - Germany was the main supplier of artillery. Reason was very simple - Germany accepted payment in raw material, while Britain & France (with plenty of raw materials from colonies) demanded payment in hard currency)

[YAN]

Thanks Edge, with having just 24 x 37mm pak 36 to the whole army, the poor infantry must have had to fire HE shells at the Italian AFVs, I cant see the VB grenade launchers doing much harm either. I notice on one of you pictures a Greek field gun being towed by a truck, am I right by saying that all the 85mm, 105mm & 155mm weapons were all towed this way ?, along with the AA guns.
Yan.

[The Edge]

I notice on one of you pictures a Greek field gun being towed by a truck, am I right by saying that all the 85mm, 105mm & 155mm weapons were all towed this way ?, along with the AA guns.

Not a truck - Pavesi tractor. (So, very, very slow motor-towing). Both Greek 85mm gun and 105mm have wooden-spoked wheel unfit for motor-towing, probably capable only for slow ride with Pavesi tractors on flat & rather soft ground - hard & bumpy ground would ruin them.

(Look from another prospective - Argentina bought similar Schneider package in 1928, all of them had to be modified for real motor-towing).

155mm Greek howitzer have different wheel pattern that WWI French Army model (solid rubber on tires), so I expect it could be motor-towed (something slow as Latil TAR).

[YAN]

Thanks Edge, I have heard of the Pavesi Mod 30 Tractor, I think it had a top road speed of 22 kph, I have never come across the Latil TAR, did the Greeks have a lot of these vehicles ?.
Going back to the AT fire, with having light AA guns in there TO& E (13.2mm Hotchkiss, 20mm Flak 30 & 37mm Flak 36) were these ever used against AFVs if the need arose.
Yan.

[Idomeneas]

Hello my friends,
Some few points on the previous posts:
The number of 65mm field guns that the Hellenic Army had in service was actually 112 and not 110.
The number of french 75mm, 85mm, 105mm and 155mm that were in service with the Hellenic Army, were those in the original list I posted and there is no doubt about it. They were bought during 1924-1926 and no other order followed since then.
In the table of guns available when Greece involved in WW II, I did not included Skoda 100mm, just because the Hellenic Army did not actually had any by that time. British offered 14 pieces of Skoda 100mm guns captured in North Africa by the Italians, but nobody arrived in Greece, while the greek troops captured 15 pieces from the Italians, while their advance in North Epirus front. From those only 4 were actually entered in service.
At the same time 7 Skoda 149mm and 33 Skoda 75mm were captured from the Italians in North Epirus.
Great Britain also sent 12 65mm field guns captured from the Italians in North Africa. 9 more Armstrong-Bozoli M13 65mm mountain guns were sent by British, while 42 were captured by the Greeks in North Epirus.
This is not a full list of captured guns.
Regarding the Boys (13.97mm) AT rifles, about 1,786 were ordered by October 1939, but after the arrival of 24 units, the british side suspended deliveries due to the increases war needs. After one year when Italy, tried to invade Greece, the greek side asked 4.000 units of these rifles from the British, that they finally sent 110 of them.
The 24 Pak 36 37mm, were insufficient of course, but attempts to acquire more of them were not succesful. In order to increase the AT defence, Hellenic Army ordered Armoured Piercing ammunition for the 32 Hotchkiss 13,2mm heavy machine guns.
I will try to find more data for the Pavesi tracktors tommorrow, my friends. Since then if you have any question......

Idomeneas

[nuyt]

HI The Edge, have you been to Athens yet?

For those who look for more pics of Greek guns try here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ntures+(1)

[The Edge]

About the 155mm towing vehicle, I mentioned Latil Arty tractor as an example of “Old Classic” Mle 17 prime mover. You will found Greek Army (until 1944) vehicles here: http://www.wargamer.gr/gr_vehicles1.htm

Artillery prime movers were:
Somua MCG5
Ο Ελληνικός στρατός παρέλαβε 48 οχήματα που αγοράστηκαν από την Γαλλία στα μέσα της δεκαετίας του '30. Χρησιμοποιήθηκαν σαν ελκυστήρες για τα 48 δισκελή μακρά πυροβόλα Schneider 85mm.
Fiat/Pavesi P4/100 & P4/110
Το όχημα κατασκευαζόταν από την Spa/Fiat από το 1936 έως το 1942. Χρησιμοποιήθηκε από τους Ιταλούς και από τους Γερμανούς. Ο Ελληνικός στρατός παρέλαβε 224 οχήματα από παραγγελία του 1935 στην Ιταλία. Οι ελκυστήρες αυτοί χρησιμοποιήθηκαν για την ρυμούλκηση των πυροβόλων Schneider 105mm του πεδινού και των Schneider 155mm του βαρέως πυροβολικού. Από φωτογραφίες της εποχής φαίνεται να υπηρέτησαν και στα συντάγματα αντιαεροπορικού πυροβολικού.
Mercedes-Benz LG2500
Αγοράστηκαν στα μέσα της δεκαετίας του '30 από τον Ελληνικό στρατό 108 οχήματα σαν ρυμουλκά για τα αντιαεροπορικά πυροβόλα των Rheinmetall 37mm & 20mm.
Mercedes-Benz LG 4000
Αγοράστηκαν στα μέσα της δεκαετίας του '30 από τον Ελληνικό στρατό 24 οχήματα σαν ρυμουλκά για τα αντιαεροπορικά πυροβόλα KRUPP FLAK 18 των 88mm.
(For 37mm PaK - I suspect Mercedes-Benz G5)

[The Edge]

Idomeneas - GREAT INFO! (Pls - more, more, more!)

For those who look for more pics of Greek guns try here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ntures+(1)

Just beware - these Museum items are the weapons found 1944-45 in Greece, lot of them not used by Greek Army 1940/41.

Nuyt - small steps first! (Sophia, for example ) At least I found also interested female companion.

[YAN]

Thanks Edge, just what I needed, Thanks for joining us Idomeneas, I dont know if any of you chaps have any info on how the artillery comunicated with the infantry for fire support and if they had any FOOs like other armies (maybe with radio).
Thanks Yan.

[YAN]

Oh nealy forgot, did the Greeks capture all there 47mm Bohler infantry guns from the Italians, or did they purchess some before the war started.
Thanks Yan.