Swedish artillery

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Sturm78
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 25 Dec 2011 22:50

Unmhhh. :?

Your last picture looks like a version with a barrel of more length than the standard version, muzzle break and wheels similar to those in the 10.5cm m/34 Bofors gun

Regards Sturm78

von Adler
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by von Adler » 26 Dec 2011 15:23

No, the shield is different and the barrel far longer on the 10,5cm Kanon m/34. Besides, Kanon m/34 used a perforated muzzle flash diverter rather than the one on Haubits m/40.

http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/ARTILLERY5.htm - the 105 H/37 is the same gun, but in Finnish service. The page has some information and photos.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2455/3559 ... z.jpg?zz=1
Another image of the Finnish version, here with the same muzzle flash supressor as in my earlier image, and the same barrel length.

Sturm78
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 26 Dec 2011 21:25

Hi von Adler.

I think I've explained bad. Your last picture seems it has a larger barrel length than standard Bofors 10.5cm m/40 howitzer .
Here, your two images to compare:

Sturm78
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peeved
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by peeved » 26 Dec 2011 21:49

Possibly related to the 10,5 cm Haubits m/40 H although the guns at http://www.tjelvar.se/forband/a7/varia/4-36.htm have e.g. different wheels.

Markus

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The Edge
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by The Edge » 26 Dec 2011 22:11

von Adler wrote:The 15cm Haubits m/38 seems to have been the fore-runner of the 15cm Haubits m/39. They used the same lavette as the 10,5cm Kanon m/34, which enabled the 15cm Haubits m/38 to be placed in sloping terrain. The 15cm Haubits m/38 served in a corps artillery division (batallion) from 1940 to war's end.
More like failed design. :wink:

Very informative text from old “chalmers” site (sadly, not operational anymore :( ):

15 cm haubits m/38
År 1938 beställde Sverige 16 stycken 15 cm haubitser med kilmekanism. Avsikten var att anskaffa fler pjäser senare, men av skäl som redogöres nedan blev det inte fler av denna typ. De använde samma ammunition som Kustartilleriets 15 cm haubits m/19.
Eldröret, som har en längd av 22 kalibrar, består av kärnrör med mantel, bakstycke och mynningsbroms. Loppet har 36 räfflor med progressiv räffelstigning som går från 35 kalibrar per varv vid partonläget till 22 kalibrar per varv vid mynningen.
Mekanismen består av Bofors vanliga horisontalkil.
Ett komplett pjäsfordon utgjordes av pjäs och föreställare, vilka båda hade stålhjul med massiva gummiringar. För att uppnå en jämnare fördelning av axeltryck mellan själva lavetten och föreställaren, så drogs elröret bakåt vid transport. Det gick till så att eldröret först frikopplades från rekylmekanismen och sedan halades bakåt med ett spel som satt på en arm mellan de hopslagna lavettbenen. Denna arm fungerade även som surrning av bakstycket.
Som dragfordon användes den fyrhjulsdrivna Volvo TVB.
Modell 38 användes som kårartilleri vid A6, där den ersattes av Fransyskan 1958. Pjäserna överfördes till Boden där de bildade en lokalförsvarsdivision som kvarstod i krigsorganisationen fram till 1984.

The 150mm Howitzer m/38
In 1938 the royal Arms Administration ordered 16 Bofors 150 mm L/22 with the sliding breech block action, designated 15 cm haub m/38. It was to use the same ammunition as the Coast Artillery's model 1919 howitzer. Deliveries were undertaken in 1940 - 41.
The barrel is made up from a sleeved tube, that is fitted with a perforated muzzle brake. The bore got 36 grooves with an increasing twist.
The m/38 had a 4.5 mm thick gun shield with a typical Swedish irregular outline.
For transport the trail end of the carriage was supported on a small two-wheeled dolly, the barrel was disconnected from the recoil/counter-recoil mechanism and drawn back to a position where the breech rested on the trail legs. The m/38 was towed by a Volvo TVB 6x4 all-terrain truck.
The model 1938 was used as division level artillery until 1958 when it was replaced by the 155 mm French howitzer. They were then transfered to the Territorial Army, who used them to guard the border to Finland. Most of the m/38s were scrapped in 1988.

15 cm haubits m/39
Efter att Österrike anslutits till Tyskland 1938 tyckte inte Tysklands krigsledning att det fanns någon anledning att behålla de Bofors-pjäser som tillverkats på licens i Österrike. Dessa såldes istället till Sverige, som på grund av politisk enfald hade en synnerligen dåligt rustad krigsmakt. Totalt köptes under 1939, 1940 och 1941 28 pjäser, som levererades till A6. De döptes i Sverige till 15 cm haubits m/39.
Till skilnad från modell 38 så var de importerade haubitserna försedda med skruvmekanism. Denna var av Bofors ogivaltyp och hade sex gängade och sex ogängade segment. De hade också ett något längre eldrör - 24 kalibrar jämfört med 22 kalibrar.
Loppet har 44 räfflor. Räfflingen börjar med en stigning av ett varv på 35 kalibrar och är cirkulär till 204 mm från mynningen där den övergår till att bli rätlinjig, med en stigning av ett varv på 22 kalibrar. Räfflad längd är 18,7 kalibrar.
Kungl. Armétygförvaltningen insåg snart att exportmodellen var bättre än de m/38 som man själva köpt från Bofors. En tänkt order på ytterligare 32 haubitser m/38 ändrades därför till 85 stycken pjäser av samma typ som de österrikiska. De döptes till 15 cm haubits m/39B och levererades med 8 stycken under 1944, 22 stycken under 1945 samt 55 stycken under 1946.
Jämfört med m/38 så hade m/39 ett större höjdriktfält, 70° istället för 48°. På den österrikiska pjäsen så hade detta dock skett till priset av ett ganska snävt sidriktfält - endast 45°. Men på m/39B had man lyckats få till ett höjdriktfält lika stort som på m/39, och ett sidriktfält lika omfattande som på m/38 - nämligen 60°.
Vid den tid när Österrike bestämde sig för vilken pjäs man skulle införskaffa så var det ont om lastbilar som kunde dra en pjäs på 6 ton. Modell 39 var därför konstruerad för delad transport. Detta betyder att eldröret transporteras på en särskild eldrörsvagn. Till varje pjäsgrupp behövdes alltså två stycken terrängdragbil Volvo TVB.
Modell 39B å sin sida transporteras, likt haub m/38, med tillbakadraget eldrör. Till m/39B räckte det därför med bara en dragbil, dock av en kraftigare modell - nämligen den mäktiga Volvo TVC.
Principen med delad transport medförde givetvis att den ursprungliga varianten var avsevärt långsammare att gruppera än den nyare B-modellen. Så fort den starkare dragbilen Volvo Ltgb 934 började levereras i mitten av 50-talet byggdes därför haubits m/39 om för hopsatt transport.
Likt andra Boforspjäser vid den här tiden så hade m/39 en mekanisk körbroms som manövrerades från dragfordonet med ett bromsrep. Modell 39B fick tryckluftsmanövrerade bromsar.
De båda typerna skiljer sig också vad gäller föreställarna. Till m/39B annvändes en sadelföreställare med små hjul med massiva ringar medan m/39 hade en föreställare av äldre typ med hjul av samma dimension som lavett och eldrörsvagn.
Även riktinstrumenten var något olika mellan m/39 och m/39B. Till skilnad från m/38 så saknar både m/39 och m/39B sköld.
Någon gång under 60-talet modifierades m/39 och m/39B genom att de gamla stålhjulen med massiva gummiringar byttes till moderna hjul med pneumatiska ringar. Samtidigt monterade man stödhjul på lavettbenen, vilket förenklade den manuella hanteringen av pjäsen. Vidare byttes markspadarna mot markplattor med markpålar.
Några år senare monterades en laddbrygga snett bakom bakstycket. Detta ökade eldhasigheten från c:a 6 till 9 skott per minut.
Modell 39(B) användes inom kårartilleriet och senare som fördelningsartiller. Eftersom den var mycket snabbare att gruppera än den tyngre och klumpigare haubits F så användes den dessutom som brigadartilleri vid de i början av 60-talet uppsatta pansarbrigaderna. Både modell 39 och 39B utgick ur organisationen 1992.

The 150mm Howitzer m/39
When Austria had been annexed to Germany the Wehrmacht desided that they had little need for the Austrian made Bofors howitzers. A total of 28 were sold to Sweden in 1939 - 41, and adopted as the 15 cm haubits m/39. The Austrian howitzers had a Bofors ogival screw breech and a L/24 barrel.
As soon as the royal Arms Administration realised that the L/24 screw breech gun actually performed better than the L/22 sliding block gun, they desided to inhibit an order for more m/38 and instead go for the export version. Two batches were delivered from Bofors, 30 pieces in 1944 - 45 and another 55 pieces in 1946, designated 15 cm haubits m/39B.
When the 150mm L/46 was designed there were few trucks that could tow a 6-ton piece of ordnance and the Austrian Army therefore went for a version that could be transported in two pieces, the carriage by it self and the barrel on a special transport waggon. Hence it took two Volvo TVB 6x4 trucks to transport one gun. The Austrian howitzer used a two-wheel limber with the same kind of wheels as the gun carriage and the transport waggon. The brakes were operated by a pull-rope from the prime mover.
The B-version, on the other hand, had a similar arrangement, with a pulled back barrel assembly, as the m/38. It was fitted with compressed-air brakes. The m/39B was connected to a small dolly instead of a full size limber. Designated prime mover was the mighty Volvo TVC 6x6.
Naturally the m/39B, which was transported in one piece, was much faster to get in and out of action than the m/39, that had to be dismantled each time. So as soon as the more powerful Volvo Ltgb 334 became available, in the early 50s, the m/39 was converted for pulled back transportation.
Compared to the L/22, the m/39 had a greater maximum elevation, 65° as to the rather poor 45° of the m/38. This came with the price of decreased traverse, 45° instead of 60°. Apparently Bofors attended to this, as the m/39B had the same maximum elevation as the m/39 and still the traverse range of the m/38.
Neither the m/39 nor the m/39B had a gun shield.
The m/39 could be fitted with a 75 mm subcalibre gun inside the main tube, for drill and practice.
In the 1960s the solid-tyred wheels were replaced by wheels with pneumatic tyres. To make the howitzer easier to handle, two castor wheels were added to the trail.
At about the same time a swing-out loading tray was added to the top carriage. This increased the rate of fire from 6 to 9 rounds per minute.
The m/39(B) was used as divisional artillery, but as it was much quicker to get into action than the newer 155mm howitzer French, it was also used as brigade level artillery with the Armoured corps. It was declared obsolete in 1992.

von Adler
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by von Adler » 26 Dec 2011 23:42

Sturm78 wrote:Hi von Adler.

I think I've explained bad. Your last picture seems it has a larger barrel length than standard Bofors 10.5cm m/40 howitzer .
Here, your two images to compare:

Sturm78
I think the barrel is retracted after having fired in my first image. If you look at the images on Jaegerplatoon and Tjelvar, you see that the barrel is indeed as long as it is in my second picture.

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peeved
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by peeved » 27 Dec 2011 10:07

According to http://forum.skalman.nu/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=28386 the long L/28 barrel was introduced with the 10,5 cm Haubits m/40 C series delivered 1956-57; As delivered the earlier m/40 S (for Siam), m/40 H (for Holland), m/40 and m/40 B howitzers had a L/22 barrel. Earlier models were lengthened with a screw-on barrel section and fitted with a single baffle muzzle brake in 1958-62, wheels were changed in 1975-80.

Markus

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peeved
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by peeved » 28 Dec 2011 14:23

There's a photo of a m/40H with original length barrel but refitted with m/40 type light alloy wheels at http://www.artillerimuseet.se/pjasavd/t ... bild42.jpg. Based on the text at http://www.artillerimuseet.se/pjasavd/t ... sida_3.htm the long-barreled 105 mms in von Adler's photo are m/40Hs with original steel wheels but the new L/28 barrel.

Markus

Sturm78
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 29 Dec 2011 10:35

Thank you very much for your information and links, Markus

Collecting all the information about 10.5cm Bofors m/40 howitzers:

10.5cm Bofors m/40S (Siam): short barrel L22, wooden spoked wheels. muzzle break???? :?

10.5cm Bofors m/40H (Holland): short barrel L22, original steel wheels (probably the wheels of the howitzers of the image posted by von Adler on 24 dec)

10.5cm Bofors m/40 (Swedish): short barrel L22, light alloy solid-tyred wheels, perforated muzzle break

105 H/37 (Finland under license): short barrel L22, perforated muzzle break. wheels?????? :?

Any new information and/or wartime image about these howitzers will be wellcome

Regards Sturm78

John T
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by John T » 29 Dec 2011 22:46

Sturm78 wrote:Thank you very much for your information and links, Markus

Collecting all the information about 10.5cm Bofors m/40 howitzers:

10.5cm Bofors m/40S (Siam): short barrel L22, wooden spoked wheels. muzzle break???? :?
16 in Swedish Service, Jenzen muzzle brake (The perforated one)

10.5cm Bofors m/40H (Holland): short barrel L22, original steel wheels (probably the wheels of the howitzers of the image posted by von Adler on 24 dec)
Initially the Dutch guns where alone with those wheels but later used on most guns postwar.

The Modern muzzle brake is m/51

Cheers
/John

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JTV
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by JTV » 19 Jan 2012 21:38

Few more details:
von Adler wrote:The 10,5cm Berghaubits m/10-24 was the only mountain artillery in Sweden. Based on the design of the 10,5cm Haubits m/10, the 10,5cm Berghaubits m/10-24 could be broked down in several loads and transported on horseback. Extensive testing took place in the 30s, but mountain artillery was deemed as too expensive and not suitable for the Swedish terrain. Mortars were considered a better option, as they were cheaper, lighter and smaller. All of these guns were lended to Finland during the winter war and were not returned until 1944.
Actually they were sold back to Sweden in 1944. Finland had bought them 9th of January 1940 and paid 35,000 SEK per howitzer and their transport equipment (they were horse-towed). Finland also bought additional equipment for these howitzers 27th of April 1940.
The 10,5cm Kanon m/34 was a modern, high-powered long-range cannon. The lavette was the same as on the 15cm Haubits m/38 and the 15cm Haubits m/39. The lavette had an innovative suspension that allowed the gun to be set up and fired in a sloping hillside, a big advantage in rough terrain. The orginal guns were part of the mobile coastal artillery (10,5cm Kanon m/27-34) but were in 1942 turned over to the Army where they, together with the 10,5cm Kanon m/34 and m/34B formed 4 corps artillery divisions (batallions). My sources does not mention if the 12 guns given to Finland during the Winter War was returned or not.
Finland had bought also these guns and they were not returned. Only first four guns arrived in time to be used in Winter War were bought 27th of January 1940 and with their equipment cost 110,000 SEK per gun.
The 21cm Haubits m/17 was the German Langer Mörser 1916. In ww1, the need for siege artillery was realised, and Sweden managed to buy 12 guns to equip one division (batallion) of siege artillery. In february 1940, 4 of the guns were sent to Finland as a part of the Swedish aid during the Winter War. My sources do not indicate if these guns were returned or not.
As the others listed above these were bought and therefore not returned.

Finland also used Swedish field artillery pieces:
- 7,5 cm Kanon M/02, these inluded bought, loaned and SFK (paid with donations collected for Finland in Sweden during Winter War) guns. Price around 35,000 SEK per gun with equipment, which was pretty cheap compared to first four of the 7,5 cm Kanon m/40 bought 17th of January 1940, which cost 70,000 SEK and another four that cost 65,000 SEK per gun. 60 of these m/02 guns saw Finnish use, from those 60 guns Finland had bought 24, another 12 had arrived with SFK and additional 24 guns had been loaned by Sweden. The loaned 24 guns were returned to Sweden soon after Winter War.

- 15cm Positionshaubits m/06: 12 bought 29th of March 1940. These horse-towed howitzers cost 40,000 SEK per howitzer and transport equipment for them another 10,500 SEK. These howitzers were sold back to Sweden in 1944.

More info can be found in my website.

Jarkko

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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by von Adler » 26 Jan 2012 09:55

Thanks for the information, JTV. I will update my information accordingly. :)

I think Finland also bought or was given 12 Norwegian 7,5cm Kanon m/01 (essentially the same gun as the Swedish one)?

Do you know when the re-sale of guns happened in 1944? It seems odd that Sweden would buy back these mostly obselete guns when artillery supplies were sufficient since mid-1943 or so. What did Sweden pay for the guns? Perhaps it was a way to let the Finns return some equipment they no longer used, to reduce their debt?

I think most of the winter war purchases were paid with the credits of about 455 million SEK made available for Finland in Sweden - of which at least 285 million SEK were waived after the war, so I think some if can be considered gifts.

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JTV
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by JTV » 27 Jan 2012 19:11

von Adler wrote: I think Finland also bought or was given 12 Norwegian 7,5cm Kanon m/01 (essentially the same gun as the Swedish one)?
Norway donated those 12 guns (Norwegians called them "7,5 cm feltkanon L/31 M/01") and depending source either 7,166 or 12,000 shells for them. While quite comparable design, they were not similar to Swedish 75 mm kanon M/02 - Swedish gun was a Krupp design, while the Norwegian gun was product of Rheinische Metallwerke (also known as factory Erhardt). Probably the most notable difference between the two designs was design of breech mechanism, in M/01 was Nordenfelt eccentric screw breech (also used in French 75-mm canon model 1897) while in M/02 Krupp used its typical horizontal sliding wedge breech. Also gun carriage used in Norwegian M/01 was partially telescopic, which is rather notable difference to Swedish M/02 and ammunition used in the two wasn't compatible. In Winter War 11 of the Norwegian guns saw battle use with Field Artillery Regiment 9. When Continuation War begun the guns were first issued to fortification artillery and year1942 were re-issued to coastal artillery, which used them rest of the war.
Do you know when the re-sale of guns happened in 1944? It seems odd that Sweden would buy back these mostly obselete guns when artillery supplies were sufficient since mid-1943 or so. What did Sweden pay for the guns? Perhaps it was a way to let the Finns return some equipment they no longer used, to reduce their debt?
What I have read the idea behind selling some of the materials was to acquire foreign currency needed for foreign trade. Originally the plan was not to sell back just field artillery pieces and their remaining ammunition, but also Swedish machineguns, 40-mm Vickers anti-aircraft guns, depth charges + their launchers and Swedish handgrenades. I don't have the documents of the actual deal, but I succeeded finding one document made about the plan dated 4th of January 1943. At least back then the artillery weapons included to the plan were:
- 22 x 75 mm field gun M/02: Price reduced to 25% or 75% from earlier price of 35,000 SEK depending condition of each gun. Hence 5 guns would have been sold with price of 26,250 SEK per gun and other 9 nine guns for 8,750 SEK per gun.
- 12 x 150 mm howitzer M/06: All of these were to be repaired and refurbished before selling them back.
- 4 x 105 mm mountain howitzer, most of which were considered to be in good shape.

Jarkko

Sturm78
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 14 Feb 2012 18:33

Hi all,

An image of a 105 H/37 Bofors Finnish howitzer in action. The wheels are not the original ones but captured Russian artillery wheels.
This is the only wartime image of this howitzer in Finnish service I have found

Sturm78
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JTV
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Re: Swedish artillery

Post by JTV » 15 Feb 2012 06:11

Sturm78 wrote:An image of a 105 H/37 Bofors Finnish howitzer in action. The wheels are not the original ones but captured Russian artillery wheels.
This is the only wartime image of this howitzer in Finnish service I have found
Unfortunately that photo seems to be from post-war era and likely showing not 105 H/37, but 105 H 61-37. These guns were not equipped with captured Soviet wheels, but with Finnish-made wheels with pneumatic tires - and these tires are visible in that photo. Before 105 H/37 were modified as 105 H 61-37 (main improvement was new longer barrel with larger cartridge chamber that allowed using of larger propellant charges) 105 H/37 had already been equipped with new Finnish made cellular rubber tires which had different tire pattern and were narrower than the pneumatic tires used with 105 H/61-37. 105 H/37 equipped with cellular rubber tires was called 105 H/37-Skp (Skp = solukumi pyörät = cellular rubber wheels). Finnish Army equipped quite a few field artillery pieces with cellular rubber tires in post-war era (early 1950's?) - including Swedish-made 76 K 37 guns (former 75 K/40 A).

It might be worth noting that just because the uniforms and helmets seem the same as the wartime ones, in Finnish case doesn't guarantee that the photo is not from post-war era. "German style" helmet remained as standard issue helmet until being replaced by M/62 (model 1962) helmet, while wartime standard uniform M/36 remained in use until 1960's and black leather boots similar to wartime design until 1990's. Post-war gray uniforms (M/56 and M/65?) similar in colour and with somewhat similar cut but more loose fitting remained also in use until 1990's.

Jarkko

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