Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

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Andy H
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Andy H » 02 May 2012 01:44

In a discussion (concerning the wearing of Military Uniforms by UK Armed Forces whilst on leave)between the Sec of State for Dominion Affairs and de Valera in October 1939, already had a figure of around 15,000 serving in the Army alone.

CAB 67/1/38

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Andy H

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Mark McShane
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Mark McShane » 09 May 2012 08:38

http://thehistorynetwork.org/blog/irish ... world-war/

I haven't listened to this yet, but they always produce very good podcasts andso this should be an interesting story.

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Galahad
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Galahad » 11 May 2012 04:22

--Slightly off-topic, but it seems to back up why the Irish who fought against Hitler wouldn't say much about it back home, at least while de Valera was still around.

--When news was received of Hitler's death he made a personal visit to the German embassy to offer his condolences and to sign the condolence book there.

--He did not do the same when he received the news of the death of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt, though he ordered flags lowered to half-staff.

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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Eireneutral » 09 Jun 2012 14:34

A lot of the men who fought for Britain from Ireland against Germany in ww2 were british plants in the Irish free state army, they were planted to ensure, that the army would never try attack the north of Ireland and free the Country fully. WW1 was different in the sence that most who fought Germany believed it would help get Ireland free.

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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Eireneutral » 09 Jun 2012 14:51

mikel wrote:Hard to believe any large group of folks in the free world would support Nazi Germany or its efforts.
Some real bad blood existed and even continues on some levels in Ireland, but overall they knew which side their bread was buttered on.
Ireland was supplying British troops with butter, devalera was a turncoat who had a nervous breakdown in richmond barracks under british interogation after the 1916 uprising, thats one of the reasons they did not execute him along with the fact that he was American born, for this he was actually made to support the allies, even against his former comrades of the IRA, who he showed no mercy with, thats why Germany bombed the butter creamery in campile because they got the butter wrappings from British pows, and traced them to the Irish factory.
All German pows who were unfortunate to be marooned in Ireland were interned, while the allies were set free, Ireland was not neutral it had a puppet government for the allies

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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Jun 2012 17:34

Hi Eireneutral,

I presume this means that, in the pursuit of historical accuracy, you will be changing your name to EirepuppetgovernmentfortheAllies?

Sid.

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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Eireneutral » 09 Jun 2012 19:45

Eiresupposedtohavebeenneutral would be more suitable, no the butter thing is correct, we got a few bombs dropped here for collaboration with the allies, and for a few other reasons as well i suppose, Dublin and Belfast got targetted also, over the puppetgovernment.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by phylo_roadking » 09 Jun 2012 21:14

A lot of the men who fought for Britain from Ireland against Germany in ww2 were british plants in the Irish free state army, they were planted to ensure, that the army would never try attack the north of Ireland and free the Country fully.
Well, its the first time I've heard THAT!

P.S. it wasn't a successful policy - if once planted in the IDF they ran off to the UK and joined the British Army! :lol:
Ireland was supplying British troops with butter, .... thats why Germany bombed the butter creamery in campile because they got the butter wrappings from British pows, and traced them to the Irish factory.
http://www.wexfordecho.ie/news/mheysnkfoj/
There are several theories, some hilarious, but following the angry protests by the Irish Government, the Third Reich accepted full responsibility and agreed to substantial compensation.

The theory now accepted is that the British discovered a means whereby they could bend the radar beams upon which the Luftwaffe depended to get them on to their targets in Britain.

Once the beam was bent, the Luftwaffe pilots started to wander off course.

If that be the case and if the pilot still thought he was over wartime Britain, Campile has a lot of aspects which made it a juicy plum for elimination.

There was an extensive railway station for rural parts.

The Co-Op creamery has every appearance of a factory from the sky while out in the yard as our brilliant photo from that fateful day shows, there was a collection of large wheeled corn drills, grass seed sewers and binders which to Feldwebel Hermann Göring up in the sky must have looked very much like artillery carriage parts.

The facts behind the Campile bombings may have puzzled Army Intelligence at the time but not the Big Bang theorists in Shelbourne.
Dublin and Belfast got targetted also, over the puppetgovernment
Belfast got targetted for a LOT more reasons than the Dublin government's stance!!! 8O
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Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Eireneutral » 09 Jun 2012 21:25

I know. but indirectly it was the dublinpuppetgovernments stance that caused Belfast to take more of the brunt because if they were not such an alliedpuppetgovernment they would have attacked the north,( just as the rebels did attack British rule in Dublin during ww1) and freed the whole island, from Britain and the Germans might not have bombed anywhere on the island at all

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by phylo_roadking » 09 Jun 2012 23:12

but indirectly it was the dublinpuppetgovernments stance that caused Belfast to take more of the brunt because if they were not such an alliedpuppetgovernment they would have attacked the north,( just as the rebels did attack British rule in Dublin during ww1) and freed the whole island, from Britain and the Germans might not have bombed anywhere on the island at all
So you're saying that because the Irish Free State didn't invade Northern Ireland and unify the whole island...Belfast got bombed?

That faux logoic has just confirmed more than a few national stereotypes! 8O

Belfast got bombed because and "only" because it was a major British city containing a large number of industries producing war materiel. if DeValera had invaded and "conquered" Northern Ireland...those industries would STILL have been producing war materiel for the UK! Who do you think Eire's largest (by far) export market during WWII was? Forget the butter...and remember the thousands of meat animals, both on the hoof and as butchered carcasses, that crossed the Irish Sea into the British ration system every day! Or the hundreds of tons of corn and barley, or potatoes...Who do you think was buying whatever Eire had to sell 1939-45???

And of course...that's not forgettting that IF De Valera had been so stupid....the 51,000 men ready, trained and equiped for the invasion of the Irish Free State under the "W" Plan would have been heading the other way sharpish! :wink: Ireland would have been united all right...but not in the way Dev intended!!! :lol:

And of course...De Valera taking an action like THAT....and making Ireland a belligerent...would ALSO be opening up Ireland to a GERMAN invasion! :P
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by panzerplatten » 09 Jun 2012 23:32

Exactly phylo,
DeValera was well aware of the fact that an invasion either from Britain or germany would see his newly formed free state back under occupation.
Thus his shrewd stance on neutrality, he was also aware of the threat posed by collaboration between IRA and Nazi alliance however trivial it may seem now, as a threat to his republic, and through recently revealed documents was furnishing British Intel, on the likes of Russell etc.
Mark

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by phylo_roadking » 09 Jun 2012 23:42

Well, "shrewd" is one way of putting it...

A lot of people regard neutrality in wartime as a sort of "third way"...when in fact it's actually JUST striking a balance between the two belligerents ;) A "dynamic", always-changing balance, a long game...and one in which the rules could change day by day depending on the belligerents' war and how it was going, and those belligerents measured you and your actions by THEIR standards, not yours! :P

So perhas less "shrewd"....than being dragged in different directions by conflicting demands? On at least two other occasions, when De Valera made relatively mild public speeches that in German eyes favoured the British...the Luftwaffe paid him a visit with an explosive reminder of his place!
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Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

Eireneutral
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by Eireneutral » 09 Jun 2012 23:49

Thats exactly my point if he made speeches that favoured Britain, the very empire who was once his enemy, this gives further credentials to my point that he became a puppet for them, remember it was Germany who supplied him with weapons, to take the British on during ww1.
I don't think that Britain would have risked reinvading the island,,
as Germany would for sure have dislodged them through France, and then might even have landed boots onto the mainland of Britain and not just the channel isles from the island.

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phylo_roadking
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by phylo_roadking » 10 Jun 2012 00:07

remember it was Germany who supplied him with weapons, to take the British on during ww1.
They supplied a lot of people further up the Republican ladder than Dev with weapons during WWI! If anything - it was the British "cull" of the Republican leadership the day the Easter Rising came to an end that only brought De Valera to the fore!

P.S. German attempts to get weapons to Republicans in WWI weren't actually THAT successful....
I don't think that Britain would have risked reinvading the island as Germany would for sure have dislodged them through France, and then might even have landed boots onto the mainland of Britain and not just the channel isles from the island.
That's exactly WHY the British had very detailed invasion plans drawn up - to counter the threat of a pre-emptive German invasion of Ireland...a very REAL threat, the Germans equally had extremely detailed plans for an invasion drawn up in 1940 and constantly updated until at least June 1941 as an optional diversion as part of the Sealion plans, you can see one of the surviving copies in the museum at Cathal Brugha Barracks IIRC. It's also time that you did some reading - "In Time Of War - Ireland, Ulster And The Price Of Neutrality 1939-45" Robert Fisk, ISBN 0-7171-2411-8
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

panzerplatten
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Re: Why Irish soldiers who fought Hitler hide their medals

Post by panzerplatten » 10 Jun 2012 00:16

Another good one into the thinking and reasoning of DeValara including the war yrs,
http://www.timpatcoogan.com/books/eamon_de_valera.htm
Mark

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