Exports of Polish 7 TP tanks to Turkey and the Netherlands

[trufelhunter]

Hi,

At present I'm working on a new caption of my future book on the Polish 7TP tank, devoted to export efforts related to that particular vehicle.

To make a long story short, in mid 1938 the Polish military authorities via "Sepewe" syndicate sent to Turkey a detailed technical description of a new tank along with a few sets of factory photos (usually 4-5 views of 13x18 cm size). Earlier the same year, in February, a similar set of documents was mailed to "Sepewe" representative in the Netherlands to be supplied to the local Ministry of Defence.

Due to very restricted information on the above mentioned subjects available in Polish archives I wonder if anybody could support me in the quest for missing data that should be available in Turkey and - possibly - in the Netherlands. Both documents and photos are of my interest, as there are only a few factory pictures of 7TP tank preserved nowadays and each addition to that number (in form of a scan) would help a lot in my project. A political (and military) landscape in the above mentioned countries at that time would be also welcomed in order to justify whether Turkish and Dutch enquiries about 7TP tank had any chance to materialise in form of an order or they were just requests to get information on alternatives available in the "light tanks' market" .

Turkey and the Netherlands are my primary targets, however persons with "an appropriate documents and information access" from Afghanistan (?), Brasil, Bulgaria, Estonia, Greece, Sweden and Yugoslavia are welcomed as well - as these countries were also interested in purchase of 7TP tanks between 1935 and 1939.

Wishing you all the best in the New Year 2012 I remain.

Mariusz

[ltcolonel]

In august 1939 Yugoslavia ordered one batallion of 36 tanks 7TP promptly with one more ordered for next year.

[Woj]

Not ordered - just try to order. But it was too late.

[trufelhunter]

"Try" is almost a proper word. Negotiations were initiated however, deadlines expected by Yugoslavia were far too short for P.Z.Inz. (7TP manufacturer) to cope with the order

[Woj]

"Try" is almost a proper word. Negotiations were initiated however, deadlines expected by Yugoslavia were far too short for P.Z.Inz. (7TP manufacturer) to cope with the order

Interesting. I have copies of the Polish documents according to these negotiations. Do you have any from the other side?

[nuyt]

Do you know who the agent in the NL was in 1938? I have seen the Dutch archives dealing with tank (vechtwagen) acquisition before WW2 years ago, but I do not recall a Polish offer. I think in 1938 the Dutch had no intention of buying. They did so however in the winter of 39/40, when it was to late. Note however that there were 2 possible clients in the NL for tanks: the Ministry of War and the Ministry for Colonies that supplied the Netherlands East Indies Army, KNIL. KNIL had bought a large number of VIckers tanks of two types, production and delivery of which was not completed before May 1940.
KNIL might have looked into the 7TP in 1938, not the Dutch Army, but I am speculating...

[trufelhunter]

Exports of military equipment was arranged by a SEPEWE company. It did not, however, conducted their activities in the Netherlands directly, but via Gokkes holding. The request from the Dutch Ministry of War came to SEPEWE in November 1937, but it was only late in February 1938, when SEPEWE representative in Warsaw got the technical description of the tank and 5 photos.

And here comes out the hidden agenda of my post. The preserved 7TP photos (especially factory ones) are very scarce and in fact only a few are known. I simply count on the luck that still somewhere in military archives of the countries where the offers for 7TP tanks were sent (e.g. Turkey, The Netherlands) the offers and photos are available. Just like in our Central Military Archive there are several files with offers of various military and technical descriptions – with photos, pamphlets, technical drawings, leaflets, etc.

[nuyt]

Hmm, the NV Handelmaatschappij S. Gokkes in The Hague, owned by Daniel and Mozes Wolf? That makes sense as they cooperated with Polish steelworks in this infamous case (selling inferior rail tracks to Brazil):
http://www.historici.nl/pdf/cid/2500-2599/2531.pdf
Their contact was a mr Radowski.

[Woj]

Hmm, the NV Handelmaatschappij S. Gokkes, owned by Daniel and MOzes Wolf? That makes sense as they copeprated with Polish steelworks in this infamous case (selling inferior rail tracks to Brazil):
http://www.historici.nl/pdf/cid/2500-2599/2531.pdf
Their contact was a mrRadowski

Yes - the same one: N.V.Handelmaatschappij, S. Gokkes, Jr., Den Haag, Vondelstraat nr.1. SEPEWE's representative from August 1934.

[nuyt]

Thats interesting, Gokkes were the middlemen for delivering Polish weapons to Spain?
W roku 1937 spółka SEPEWE sprzedała firmie „Gokkes-Wolff”, jako pośrednikowi 12 haubic 105 mm wz.98/09 wraz z 15.000 strzałów haubicznych z magazynów wojskowych za kwoty odpowiednio 1.350.000 zł oraz 1.725.000 zł. Były to prawdopodobnie wszystkie haubice, których stan pozwalał na ich dalsze użycie. Haubice oficjalnie miały zostać sprzedane Grecji, jednak trafiły zapewne do hiszpańskich republikanów.
From:http://www.weu1918-1939.pl/artyleria/ha ... 98_09.html
And here:
http://militariapoznan.pl/index.php?opt ... le&id=1436

I never knew that!

[Woj]

I never knew that!

Oh - there was much more connections between Gokkes and the Polish arms export/import activity.

[nuyt]

The Spaniards already know about them:
¿Quiénes eran los hermanos Wolf?.
Los súbditos holandeses Daniel Wolf nacido en Arheim el 3 de Julio de 1898 y su hermano Moses, nacido en Maastrich el 1 de Abril de 1894 , pertenecían a una familia judía que se había hecho millonaria con el contrabando internacional de armas en los difíciles años de la 1ª GM.
Ambo hermanos era los propietarios de la casa N.V. Gokkes, con sede en la Haya y delegaciones en varias capitales europeas entre ellas Rótterdam, Paris, y Varsovia. from: http://foro.elgrancapitan.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3751

Ze Russians too:
With regard to some of the most active sellers of weapons Marcus Wolf (Marcus Wolf) and his brother, Daniel (Daniel) was suspected that they were Soviet agents. T ollandskie subjects brothers - Markus Wolf (Moses aka Marcus Wolf) and Daniel Wolf (Daniel Wolf) born in the Netherlands - Marcus in Maastricht (Maastrich) April 1, 1894 Mr. and Daniel in the Arheim July 3, 1898 city, they belonged to a Jewish family, whose head became a millionaire at the international smuggling of weapons during World War II ervoy. The brothers were the owners of the company NV Gokkes, with headquarters in The Hague and offices in several European capitals, including Rotterdam, Paris and Warsaw. I have information that Daniel Wolff-law was head of the Republican government of Juan Negrin. From the earliest days of the war with them came into contact a resident of the Government in Paris a Orozco, since the brothers clearly associated with numerous and varied departures weapons destined for the Spanish Republic. It is sometimes said that the republican authorities did not like brothers, Wolf, because part of the weapon acquired through them recorded them in the category of "unfit". But we should remember that they too were not free to choose, and they took what they offered. The brothers have put the country of weapons purchased several lots in different countries, including tanks Renault FT -17 from Poland. From: http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... md%3Dimvns

Adn the Dutch too
http://www.iisg.nl/ondernemers/pdf/pers-1651-01.pdf

[nuyt]

I never knew that!

Oh - there was much more connections between Gokkes and the Polish arms export/import activity.

Could you tell us a bit more?

[Woj]

Certainly - but tomorrow only. I must find some copies... and it will not be so easy for me to explain all these things in English.

[trufelhunter]

Well, well, well - a very interesting discussion. Hope, at one point, it'll lead back to 7TP photos in Dutch archives.

Nevertheless, FT-17 exports to Spain arrangements are a very interesting subject, indeed ....