Role of the Islamic World in WWII

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Loïc
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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by Loïc » 12 Jan 2022 10:58

Found the general TOE indicating the proportion of each : 92 officers including 10 africans, 3100 men (2100 Africans, 1000 European) for a reorganized Tirailleurs Regiment in 1943 according US standards, so proportion not very different from I saw previously for 1939-1940 TOE
while in the 4e DMM the mountain regiments are stronger and more indigenous units with 3080 Moroccans for 950 European,
at divisional level this represents a 4e DMM with 75% moroccans, 2e DIM 3e DIA and 9e DIC with 60% Africans vs 40% French, and the reverse for the 1ère DMI

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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by daveshoup2MD » 13 Jan 2022 02:52

Loïc wrote:
12 Jan 2022 10:58
Found the general TOE indicating the proportion of each : 92 officers including 10 africans, 3100 men (2100 Africans, 1000 European) for a reorganized Tirailleurs Regiment in 1943 according US standards, so proportion not very different from I saw previously for 1939-1940 TOE
while in the 4e DMM the mountain regiments are stronger and more indigenous units with 3080 Moroccans for 950 European,
at divisional level this represents a 4e DMM with 75% moroccans, 2e DIM 3e DIA and 9e DIC with 60% Africans vs 40% French, and the reverse for the 1ère DMI
Thanks - so that's (roughly) 1/3rd European, 2/3rds African among the infantry, which is the same percentage *roughly" as a "typical" Indian infantry brigade for much of the war.

Coms out to - about - six "Muslim" brigade/regiment equivalents and three "European" equivalents between the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th divisions; plus the four GTMs. Still looks like 10-3. Add in the 1st Infantry Division (call it one French and two "subsaharan" brigade equivalents), and the 9th (three "subsaharan") and it's - arguably - 10 "Muslim," four "European" and five "subsaharan" ... that's still better than 2-1 in terms of "Muslim" troops over Europeans.

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Loïc
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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by Loïc » 14 Jan 2022 10:41

As said previously this way to count is valid mainly for the Italian campaign where served these 4 infantry divisions together and in this case would be rather 9 north african 4 european 2 africans infantry according to your calculation excluding others troops and also XIXe Corps in Tunisia for others reasons, there were no more than 3 GTM at the same time on campaign from Italy to Germany

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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by daveshoup2MD » 15 Jan 2022 03:15

Loïc wrote:
14 Jan 2022 10:41
As said previously this way to count is valid mainly for the Italian campaign where served these 4 infantry divisions together and in this case would be rather 9 north african 4 european 2 africans infantry according to your calculation excluding others troops and also XIXe Corps in Tunisia for others reasons, there were no more than 3 GTM at the same time on campaign from Italy to Germany
Well, yes, in terms of organized formations capable of taking the field with the Allies to help liberate France, it's going to predate the liberation of France.

Actually, weren't three of the GTMs in Italy with the FEC at the same time the fourth GTM was helping take Elba in BRASSARD, more or less?

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TheMarcksPlan
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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 20 Jan 2022 20:38

Same as the "Christian World," which had portions with the Allies and portions specifically invoking Christian identity to galvanize genocide and ethnic cleansing (e.g. Romania).
https://twitter.com/themarcksplan
https://www.reddit.com/r/AxisHistoryForum/
https://medium.com/counterfactualww2
"The whole question of whether we win or lose the war depends on the Russians." - FDR, June 1942

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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by wm » 21 Jan 2022 01:28

What was the connection between Christianity and the killings of Romanian Jews?
Ion Antonescu didn't romanize his country because he found it in the Bible.

Similarly, the Muslims didn't oppose the conquest of Palestine because they were Muslims.

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Re: Role of the Islamic World in WWII

Post by daveshoup2MD » 29 Jan 2022 06:04

wm wrote:
21 Jan 2022 01:28
What was the connection between Christianity and the killings of Romanian Jews?
Ion Antonescu didn't romanize his country because he found it in the Bible.

Similarly, the Muslims didn't oppose the conquest of Palestine because they were Muslims.
Indeed... In 1917-18, after all, the local Muslims supported the conquest of Palestine by (mostly) Christians, in fact. ;)

And as stated above (in great detail) FAR MORE Muslims fought for the Allies in 1939-45 than for the Axis.

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