German Antinazis
German Antinazis
Were there any German antinazis in Allied forces during the war?
- Waleed Y. Majeed
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- Posts: 4146
- Joined: 13 Nov 2004, 12:37
- Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Re: German Antinazis
Many “ex-germans”, fought on allied side. One of these men was John Langford, Churchills bodyguard. Have a look through this article for more names.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep ... many.world
Waleed
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep ... many.world
Waleed
- Waleed Y. Majeed
- Member
- Posts: 4146
- Joined: 13 Nov 2004, 12:37
- Location: Aarhus, Denmark
Re: German Antinazis
Good morning Mannet,
interesting *.pdf file in german language:
Widerstand von außen (Resistance from outside)
- Deutsche in alliierten Streitkräften (1939-1945) - (Germans in allied forces (1939-1945)
Link to the pdf file: http://upgr.bv-opfer-ns-militaerjustiz. ... -final.pdf
Hans1906
* A little story only on the edge, my grandfather and comrades, still in RAD uniforms, were arrested by an american officer in Bavaria after the german capitulation in 1945.
The american officer was a german Jew, who had emigrated to the United States, and had a perfect command of the german language.
The officer was particularly angry about the swastika armbands of the RAD men, but the officer let all the men go...
The RAD men later changed from uniforms to civilian clothes, and they all got away...
I even remember the former dialogue, between the american officer, and the RAD men, told to my by my grandmother:
"What is your branch, "Arbeitsdienst", you are nazis, swastika armband, you are "Reichsarbeitsdienst", you are nazis, wearing that
armband, war criminals..."
(Memories of my grandmother...)
interesting *.pdf file in german language:
Widerstand von außen (Resistance from outside)
- Deutsche in alliierten Streitkräften (1939-1945) - (Germans in allied forces (1939-1945)
Link to the pdf file: http://upgr.bv-opfer-ns-militaerjustiz. ... -final.pdf
Hans1906
* A little story only on the edge, my grandfather and comrades, still in RAD uniforms, were arrested by an american officer in Bavaria after the german capitulation in 1945.
The american officer was a german Jew, who had emigrated to the United States, and had a perfect command of the german language.
The officer was particularly angry about the swastika armbands of the RAD men, but the officer let all the men go...
The RAD men later changed from uniforms to civilian clothes, and they all got away...
I even remember the former dialogue, between the american officer, and the RAD men, told to my by my grandmother:
"What is your branch, "Arbeitsdienst", you are nazis, swastika armband, you are "Reichsarbeitsdienst", you are nazis, wearing that
armband, war criminals..."
(Memories of my grandmother...)
The paradise of the successful lends itself perfectly to a hell for the unsuccessful. (Bertold Brecht on Hollywood)
Re: German Antinazis
Hello Mannet,
there a lot of examples for German or also Austrian anti-Nazis.
Harry Nomburg was the son of jewish family from Coburg. He fought with British Royal Marines Commandos in Normandy and the Walcheren area.
Source: Peter Masters: "Kommando der Verfolgten. 87 Elitesoldaten im Kampf gegen Hitler", Schneekluth Verlag.
Masters or Peter Arany himself was a Jew from Austria and a member of the RM Commandos.
There is a book about the Ritchie Boys named after Camp Ritchie where Emigrants from Europe were trained in Intelligence matters and interrogation and Propaganda.
There a two more books about that issue:
https://www.zinnfigur.com/Buecher-Medie ... krieg.html
https://www.zinnfigur.com/Buecher-Medie ... krieg.html
I would also like to mention names like Saul Padover and Georg Stefan Troller who worked/ fight with US Army against Nazi Germany.
https://youtu.be/-TBNYFnicMM
Paratrooper Officer Danny Matt from Israels Defense Forces had tried to join the British Jewish Brigade but was rejected.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Matt
I think that there were some German jews who had fought with that unit in Italy or elsewhere.
The famous Israeli Spy Wolfgang Lotz from Mannheim had served in the British Armed Forces.
I hope I was able to answer tour question to some extent.
Jews from Europe in action with the OSS in Austria
https://youtu.be/uyu2W6OFpmg
Best regards
Robert
there a lot of examples for German or also Austrian anti-Nazis.
Harry Nomburg was the son of jewish family from Coburg. He fought with British Royal Marines Commandos in Normandy and the Walcheren area.
Source: Peter Masters: "Kommando der Verfolgten. 87 Elitesoldaten im Kampf gegen Hitler", Schneekluth Verlag.
Masters or Peter Arany himself was a Jew from Austria and a member of the RM Commandos.
There is a book about the Ritchie Boys named after Camp Ritchie where Emigrants from Europe were trained in Intelligence matters and interrogation and Propaganda.
There a two more books about that issue:
https://www.zinnfigur.com/Buecher-Medie ... krieg.html
https://www.zinnfigur.com/Buecher-Medie ... krieg.html
I would also like to mention names like Saul Padover and Georg Stefan Troller who worked/ fight with US Army against Nazi Germany.
https://youtu.be/-TBNYFnicMM
Paratrooper Officer Danny Matt from Israels Defense Forces had tried to join the British Jewish Brigade but was rejected.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Matt
I think that there were some German jews who had fought with that unit in Italy or elsewhere.
The famous Israeli Spy Wolfgang Lotz from Mannheim had served in the British Armed Forces.
I hope I was able to answer tour question to some extent.
Jews from Europe in action with the OSS in Austria
https://youtu.be/uyu2W6OFpmg
Best regards
Robert
Re: German Antinazis
Robert,
thanks for mentioning Georg Stefan Troller, the genius of all documentary movies ever!
Troller about Ron Kovic - "Why don't you just get out of here!"
Video:
Next to Peter Scholl-Latour, one masterpiece after another...!
Hans1906
thanks for mentioning Georg Stefan Troller, the genius of all documentary movies ever!
Troller about Ron Kovic - "Why don't you just get out of here!"
Video:
Next to Peter Scholl-Latour, one masterpiece after another...!
Hans1906
The paradise of the successful lends itself perfectly to a hell for the unsuccessful. (Bertold Brecht on Hollywood)
Re: German Antinazis
Hello Hans,
thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I don't know much about Stefan Troller. It seems that I have to dug in deeper into his interesting life and career.
Concerning the topic itself I would like to raise attention for Germans who fought with the French Foreign Legion against their home-country. Especially in the battle of Bir Hakeim in North-Africa Germans fought with the 13ieme Demi-Brigade against Rommels Afrikakorps. Rumour has it that Rommel disobeyed orders to shoot German POW of the Foreign Legion after the break-out of the garrison.
We also have a lot of German communists who fought within the ranks of the Soviet Red Army.
Konrad "Koni" Wolf, brother of the famous East-German spychief Markus Wolf had participated in the Soviet's assault on Berlin. He was also the first city commandant of the city of Bernau in the north of Berlin.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Wolf
Stefan Doernberg is another German who fought with the Red Army.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Doernberg
As far as I know Germans worked often with GlawPurka the political Main-Directorate of the Soviet General-Staff where they were instrumental for diversion and propaganda work against the Wehrmacht or as interpreters. Par example Wolf had worked on GlawPURKA's Order with the political department of the 47th army in the Caucasus. Source: Rolf Aurich and Wolfgang Jacobsen "Konrad Wolf - Der Sonnensucher".
Germans were also trained by NKVD and GRU and send to the official Soviet Partisan units. One example is Karl Linke, who was the first head of the lesser known intelligence service of the GDR's Nationale Volksarmee.
Source: Bodo Wegmann "Die Militäraufklärung der NVA: die zentrale Organisation der militärischen Aufklärung der Streitkräfte der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik"
Together with his son Heinz, Karl Linke served with the 4th department of NKVD ( Sabotage and fight in the rear area) and organzied and lead partisans. Heinz died in January 1944 behind German lines in Belorussia in the age of 21.
Source: Dieter Krüger and Armin Wagner: "Konspiration als Beruf - Deutsche Spionagechefs im Kalten Krieg"
Ernst Wollweber was a specialist for shipping sabotage and worked on NKVD's order. He was imprisoned in neutral Sweden and was later Minister for State Security in the GDR.
https://www.bstu.de/mfs-lexikon/detail/wollweber-ernst/
German soldiers of the 999er penal units had not only deserted to but had also joined the ranks of the Greek Andarts.
Best regards
Robert
thank you for your reply. Unfortunately I don't know much about Stefan Troller. It seems that I have to dug in deeper into his interesting life and career.
Concerning the topic itself I would like to raise attention for Germans who fought with the French Foreign Legion against their home-country. Especially in the battle of Bir Hakeim in North-Africa Germans fought with the 13ieme Demi-Brigade against Rommels Afrikakorps. Rumour has it that Rommel disobeyed orders to shoot German POW of the Foreign Legion after the break-out of the garrison.
We also have a lot of German communists who fought within the ranks of the Soviet Red Army.
Konrad "Koni" Wolf, brother of the famous East-German spychief Markus Wolf had participated in the Soviet's assault on Berlin. He was also the first city commandant of the city of Bernau in the north of Berlin.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Wolf
Stefan Doernberg is another German who fought with the Red Army.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Doernberg
As far as I know Germans worked often with GlawPurka the political Main-Directorate of the Soviet General-Staff where they were instrumental for diversion and propaganda work against the Wehrmacht or as interpreters. Par example Wolf had worked on GlawPURKA's Order with the political department of the 47th army in the Caucasus. Source: Rolf Aurich and Wolfgang Jacobsen "Konrad Wolf - Der Sonnensucher".
Germans were also trained by NKVD and GRU and send to the official Soviet Partisan units. One example is Karl Linke, who was the first head of the lesser known intelligence service of the GDR's Nationale Volksarmee.
Source: Bodo Wegmann "Die Militäraufklärung der NVA: die zentrale Organisation der militärischen Aufklärung der Streitkräfte der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik"
Together with his son Heinz, Karl Linke served with the 4th department of NKVD ( Sabotage and fight in the rear area) and organzied and lead partisans. Heinz died in January 1944 behind German lines in Belorussia in the age of 21.
Source: Dieter Krüger and Armin Wagner: "Konspiration als Beruf - Deutsche Spionagechefs im Kalten Krieg"
Ernst Wollweber was a specialist for shipping sabotage and worked on NKVD's order. He was imprisoned in neutral Sweden and was later Minister for State Security in the GDR.
https://www.bstu.de/mfs-lexikon/detail/wollweber-ernst/
German soldiers of the 999er penal units had not only deserted to but had also joined the ranks of the Greek Andarts.
Best regards
Robert
Re: German Antinazis
Hi
thanks for answers, in materials from Hans are informations about Germans in Polish Forces in West - most of them were Silesians, ethnic group considered by nazis as Volksdeutsche. this topic is very interesting for me, as I'm partly Silesian too, and at the end its hard to say clearly, that Silesians are Germans or Poles.
As I can see, most of Germans in allied forces were of jewish descend (what is not surprising). Is it known, how many of non-jewish Germans served on allies site?
thanks for answers, in materials from Hans are informations about Germans in Polish Forces in West - most of them were Silesians, ethnic group considered by nazis as Volksdeutsche. this topic is very interesting for me, as I'm partly Silesian too, and at the end its hard to say clearly, that Silesians are Germans or Poles.
As I can see, most of Germans in allied forces were of jewish descend (what is not surprising). Is it known, how many of non-jewish Germans served on allies site?
Re: German Antinazis
I found such an thing: https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-Na ... uring-WWII
according to this 5341 German soldiers were recruited to soviet army
and this: Bereits kurz nach der Machtergreifung Adolf Hitlers wurden in der Sowjetunion für Russlanddeutsche Aufnahmebeschränkungen für die Rote Armee eingeführt. Trotz einer verordneten Entlassungswelle gehörten zum Zeitpunkt des deutschen Überfalls im Juni 1941 immer noch mehr als 33 000 Russlanddeutsche der Roten Armee an, die überwiegende Mehrheit davon stammte aus der Wolgadeutschen Republik. Ab September 1941 wurden die Deutschen aus ihren Einheiten entfernt und in Arbeitslager geschickt. Sie bildeten den Kern der sogenannten Arbeitsarmee, in der die Deutschen Zwangsarbeit leisten mussten. Ungeachtet der zunehmenden Repressionen gelang es einigen Deutschen, in der Roten Armee zu bleiben, teilweise durch die Änderung des Nachnamens. Auch in den zahlreichen Partisaneneinheiten waren sie aktiv. Insgesamt kämpften über 64 000 Russlanddeutsche gegen Hitlerdeutschland. Viele erhielten für ihre Leistungen Orden, 14 wurden zu „Helden der Sowjetunion“ ernannt.
https://mdz-moskau.eu/die-unbekannten-k ... ten-armee/
that means, shortly, that on the beginning of Fall Barbarossa there were about 33 000 Russian Germans in red army. many were rejected from RA, but finally over 64 000 Russian Germans fought (including people from soviet partisants) against nazi Germany
according to this 5341 German soldiers were recruited to soviet army
and this: Bereits kurz nach der Machtergreifung Adolf Hitlers wurden in der Sowjetunion für Russlanddeutsche Aufnahmebeschränkungen für die Rote Armee eingeführt. Trotz einer verordneten Entlassungswelle gehörten zum Zeitpunkt des deutschen Überfalls im Juni 1941 immer noch mehr als 33 000 Russlanddeutsche der Roten Armee an, die überwiegende Mehrheit davon stammte aus der Wolgadeutschen Republik. Ab September 1941 wurden die Deutschen aus ihren Einheiten entfernt und in Arbeitslager geschickt. Sie bildeten den Kern der sogenannten Arbeitsarmee, in der die Deutschen Zwangsarbeit leisten mussten. Ungeachtet der zunehmenden Repressionen gelang es einigen Deutschen, in der Roten Armee zu bleiben, teilweise durch die Änderung des Nachnamens. Auch in den zahlreichen Partisaneneinheiten waren sie aktiv. Insgesamt kämpften über 64 000 Russlanddeutsche gegen Hitlerdeutschland. Viele erhielten für ihre Leistungen Orden, 14 wurden zu „Helden der Sowjetunion“ ernannt.
https://mdz-moskau.eu/die-unbekannten-k ... ten-armee/
that means, shortly, that on the beginning of Fall Barbarossa there were about 33 000 Russian Germans in red army. many were rejected from RA, but finally over 64 000 Russian Germans fought (including people from soviet partisants) against nazi Germany
Re: German Antinazis
I would please not call the german soldiers in later wars "Anti-Nazis", that would be fundamentally wrong.
"Lost souls from a lost war", that would better describe their status at the time, or whatever...
In fremden Diensten - Deutsche Legionäre im Indochinakrieg
There are several more documentaries like this online...
Hans
"Lost souls from a lost war", that would better describe their status at the time, or whatever...
In fremden Diensten - Deutsche Legionäre im Indochinakrieg
There are several more documentaries like this online...
Hans
The paradise of the successful lends itself perfectly to a hell for the unsuccessful. (Bertold Brecht on Hollywood)
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- Member
- Posts: 1524
- Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 06:34
Re: German Antinazis
von Seydlitz-Kurzbach's Free Germany people worked in partisan units, propaganda, interrogation and during the Oder battle, they went across the lines, in Wehrmacht uniforms to spread misinformation.
Re: German Antinazis
More about all this, and much more...
Peter Scholl-Latour "Der Ritt auf dem Drachen" ("The ride on the dragon")
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AN1GHRdTrg
Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-VeuX9RBoA
Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnzdjdNsZgA
Part 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0spiKslKQ
Part 1 is not rated, open to the public:
Peter Scholl-Latour: Der Ritt auf dem Drachen 1 - Frankreich in Indochina
Peter Scholl-Latour https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scholl-Latour
A badass, a towering journalist throughout his life, a role model, unquestioned.
The four-part docu is a kind of historical gift, hard-hitting, and also very personally heartfelt, definitely worth watching!
Hans
Peter Scholl-Latour "Der Ritt auf dem Drachen" ("The ride on the dragon")
Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AN1GHRdTrg
Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-VeuX9RBoA
Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnzdjdNsZgA
Part 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS0spiKslKQ
Part 1 is not rated, open to the public:
Peter Scholl-Latour: Der Ritt auf dem Drachen 1 - Frankreich in Indochina
Peter Scholl-Latour https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scholl-Latour
A badass, a towering journalist throughout his life, a role model, unquestioned.
The four-part docu is a kind of historical gift, hard-hitting, and also very personally heartfelt, definitely worth watching!
Hans
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The paradise of the successful lends itself perfectly to a hell for the unsuccessful. (Bertold Brecht on Hollywood)
Re: German Antinazis
in this article: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugoslawiendeutsche is that many Jugoslaviendeutsche, who catholic were, were in opposition to nazis and ca 2000 were in structure of partisants. does somebody know about this, and in wchich partisant groups were they (communists or other) ?