Czech / German fights 1938/1939

[Rian]

Spis is really hard to say. As I said it depended from person to person. In one family there should be people who felt Poliswh and other Slovak. And, actually, I have family on the Polish side. Some of them feel to be Poles some Slovaks living in Poland. So I can even speak some broken Polish.

I know. I was working with Slovaks in Ireland, and wife of my neighbour is Slovakian girl from Orava.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Rian.

I think it worth pointing out that Poland only took the disputed territories "peacefully" because the Polish pressure coincided with the Munich Crisis. The dispute with the Poles over Tesin diverted a Czech corps at just the time Czechoslovakia was threatened with invasion by Germany. Had Czechoslovakia not then been trying to face down Germany, there is little doubt the Czechs would have fought the Poles for Tesin.

Poland's opportunistic actions over Tesin at the time of the Munich Crisis and over northern enclaves of Slovakia and Ruthenia in the winter of 1938-39 seem to have received little coverage in English-language literature.

Cheers,

Sid.

[3mk]

Oh thanks for the information Rian

[Rian]

Hi Sid

I know about polish pressure (ultimatum). Becouse that I wrote "peacefully" in quotation-marks

Poland's opportunistic actions over Tesin

Polish opportunistic actions over Tesin in 1938 was similar to Czechoslovak opportunistic action over Tesin in 1919 (polish army at this time fought in east) and between war was very bad relations between Poland and Czechoslovakia becouse this action from 1919. From polish side - Czechoslovak action in 1919 was illegal and in Czechoslovak part of Tesin Silesia polish minority was discrimined. In 1938 polish authorities behold chance to "revenge".

[hambac]

Czech action in tesin area in 1919 was (maybe) opportunistic, but it was mainly pragmatic, because there was (and still is) one of two main railroads connecting czech and slovak republic - it was a backbone of the transportation system of newly born czechoslovakia(and because of the upcoming war against hungary it was becoming even more important).

but stick to the topic:
most fights between czechs and germans happen prior to mobilisation of cs.army. it was mainly fighting between czech border guards and gendarmeries(stranghtened by few soldiers - they all together were forming SOS squads). SOS troops had strict orders not to return fire towards german territory, freikorps knew it and mainly the MG fire was comming from germany. The SOS troops were also outnumbered. After mobilisation the freikorps was attacked by army with full force and as soon as they recognized stronger enemy(usually much sooner then the fight could even start), they retreated to germany.

[Rian]

most fights between czechs and germans happen prior to mobilisation of cs.army. it was mainly fighting between czech border guards and gendarmeries(stranghtened by few soldiers - they all together were forming SOS squads). SOS troops had strict orders not to return fire towards german territory, freikorps knew it and mainly the MG fire was comming from germany. The SOS troops were also outnumbered. After mobilisation the freikorps was attacked by army with full force and as soon as they recognized stronger enemy(usually much sooner then the fight could even start), they retreated to germany.

And was any border clashes with german Grenzschutz or Wehrmacht in 1938??

[hambac]

Can't say 100% sure, but i suppose no. the only fight between cs. and german regular units i know about happend in Frydek in march 1939(as you stated above).

Maybe the mg fire coming from germany was fired by wehrmacht units, but officialy freikorps did it.

There was also a lot of clashes on cs-hungarian border

[KACKO]

There was also a lot of clashes on cs-hungarian border

About this you can check in here; http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7&start=30.

BTW. I think a noticed somewhere, that Sudet's Germans had some help in form of "volunteers in Czechozlovakia, but of course, maybe I am just confusing this information with somethin i red in novel "Zaby v mliku"

[Rian]

I asked about Wehrmaht or Grenzschutz, becouse on polish dws.org forum was information about shots between czech and german border posts (probably in village Srbska in Izera Mountains)

[hambac]

I found only village "srbska kamenice" which is actualy in Lusatian mountains(just next to Izera mountains - to the west). this village is just behind the line of light fortifications and also isn't located straight at the borders. according to diary of XXII batalion which was defending this region there were no fights mentioned

[hambac]

finaly i found the topic on dws.org - to understand polish is quite difficult for me, but i rechecked the maps and found the village Srbsko, hope it's finally the one you mentioned. And i also found a short story about it: http://www.valka.cz/newdesign/v900/clanek_10888.html.

According to this article, in Srbska on 23rd September at about 23:00 during routine document check two germans on way to Germany draw guns inside custom office, killed two custom officers and lethaly wounded third one. After that they escaped to Germany and custom office got under mg fire.

[Rian]

finaly i found the topic on dws.org -

On this topic in dws.forum is some wrong informations (eg. about "ambush" after Munich with "71 German soldiers killed"). Mayby name "Srbsko" is too wrong. I know only village "Srbska".

[hambac]

i wrote the name bad, but i meant this village: http://www.mapy.cz/#x=134924544@y=139155968@z=12@mm=TP, and the information from valka.cz are about village "Srbska", so they should be what you asked for.

that post about 74 killed germans, could you translate it please - i probably didnt understand it right.

[Rian]

that post about 74 killed germans, could you translate it please - i probably didnt understand it right.

I'm not good in translation, this tekst in english is:
"I know one more czech-german fight in Izera Mountains, where group of desperated czech soldiers, I don't know how many and without commander organized bloody ambush in mountains. They put some pines, oaks and rocks on the road. From one side was was precipice. On other side Czechs placed 4 HMG on rocks and mines and after transition of Germans some a 40 m from the place of ambush Czechs blocked road by some cars and cut only way of retreat. An attack totally surprised Germans and in very rapid time all column broke off to exist, 71 Germans died. Czechs were supported by abandoned tank which was found three hours before ambush. That was the biggests Czech-German fight."

I think, that all this fight is a legend.

[hambac]

thanks for translation

Definitely, it can't be true. If something like this ever happend, it would receive a lot of publicity - and it would also bring nasty german revenge - at least to czech civilians in nearby area. In autum 1938 Czechoslovakia still existed so the soldiers obeyed orders and retreated.

and mentioning abandoned tank seems even more ridiculous - something like this could be possible in may 1945 (but killing 71 germans in one ambush didn't happen even in that time)