Greek weapons and vehicles

[Mr Holmes]

I handled my grandfather's Mannlicher back in 1988 in Greece. Never got to fire it though ... then my uncle came and took them away (a deprived childhood ).

[Franzl Rider]

Hello BIGPanzer,

I am really interested in Renault FT. I know of the eleven FT's in the Greek army but have no further info on them. Do yoy or anybody else? or even perhaps a picture?

Happy with any info.

Franzl

[BIGpanzer]

Hello, Franzl!
Unfortunately, I don't have any additional info in my sources about Greek FT-17 tanks. All info I know I've posted.
Here is one Polish site with some info (sorry, on Polish) and good photos (including Greek light cruiser "Helle" and field artillery) about battle for Greece in 1940:
http://grecja.home.pl/historia%20IIww.htm

[TISO]

Articles about PZL-24 fighters in Greek service:
http://imansolas.freeservers.com/Aces/T ... ters.html?
http://www.brushfirewars.org/aircraft/p ... _greek.htm

Article about Greek Bloch 151 fighters:
http://www.brushfirewars.org/aircraft/b ... _greek.htm

[BIGpanzer]

http://www.warbirdphotos.net/aviapix/Fi ... -greek.jpg (photo of Greek P.24 fighter)

[gjs]

Hello,

Do you know anything about the status of the next 2 destroyers Vasilefs Constantinos & Vasilissa Sofia (Vasilefs Georgios class) to be built in Greece (in addition to the well known first 2 built in UK). The question is whether the building (or preparation) process was started and if yes then what was the status at the time of German's Invasion.

Thanks

gjs

[MarkoZ]

Hello have a look at the following thread on mapleleaf forum entitled Dutch vickers model 1936-Netherlands east indies, it has some information about the Greek Armoured units and equipement

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/showt ... eadid=1896

cheers

Marko

[Dido]

Thyella" and "Kios" were sunk at Piraeus port at the same time by German bombers. "Kyzikos" and "Pergamos" were sunk near Salamis island (not at port) at the same time by German bombers. "Kidonia" was sunk also at open sea north to Peloponnese peninsula.
"Proussa" was sunk near Crete island even two days before "official date" of German invasion.

Thyella was sunk at Vouliagmeni Bay, off Kavouri.

Aigli, Alkyone, Arethusa and Kios were scuttled in the area around Fleves Islands
Doris was scuttled at Porto Rafti
Pergamos and Kyzikos were sunk in Salamis Naval Base
Kidoniai was indeed sunk near Monemvasia in the Peloponnese

Proussa was sunk in shallow water at Corfu harbour, on 4/4/41 by Junkers 87. I don't know if she was raised and used by the Italians.

[Dido]

Hello,

Do you know anything about the status of the next 2 destroyers Vasilefs Constantinos & Vasilissa Sofia (Vasilefs Georgios class) to be built in Greece (in addition to the well known first 2 built in UK). The question is whether the building (or preparation) process was started and if yes then what was the status at the time of German's Invasion.

Thanks

gjs

Vasilefs Constantinos & Vasilissa Sofia were never not laid down. Some guns that were delivered for them prior to 1940, have been placed in shore batteries.

[Dido]

>>Torpedo (patrol) boats: Aspis, Niki (built in Germany in 1906; 275 t, 2x533mm torpedo tubes); Sphendoni, Thyella (built in Great Britain in 1907; 310 t, 2x450mm torpedo tubes; Thyella was sunk on 22.04.1941 by German bombers); Kios, Kyzikos, Kidonia (built in 1915; 241 t; 2x457mm torpedo tubes; all were sunk 22.04-26.04.1941 by German bombers); Pergamos, Prousa (built in 1915; 241 t; 2x457mm torpedo tubes; Proussa was sunk on 04.04.1941 by German bombers). Also in reserve Aigli, Alkyone, Arethousa, Doris (built in 1913, 148 t, 2x457mm torpedo tubes).

Did these see much action or where the bombed in port?

Sphendoni saw some action in March 1941, when she scored an unspecified success against Italian forces.
Sphendoni, Niki and Aspis escaped to Egypt were they were used in combat patrols. Niki made a raid against Tobruk. All three survived to be decommissioned in 1944-45 and were scrapped circa 1946.

[Chavusch]

Actual Greek main battle rifle is not M1903 but M1890 < After austrian army trials those w/o box magazin Manlichers rejected in 1900 < Austrian Soldiers called Cold Shoulder! > but after 3 years Greek kingdom selected without any serious considiration this weapons as Greek manlicher Schoauer M1903 , after most of the 1903`s produced better refined Manlichers for Greek forces as of Manlicher M1903/14< 6.5mm> , same weapon sold to Romania M1893 and Holland as M 1895.

After WWI, 1915-1922 Greek troops used and spoiled as Frontier Pawn of the British Goverment by Lyod George in Asia Minor Anatolia> occupation during this period Greeks bought many Rifles from Romania , after defeat of the Hellenic Forces , new Kemalist Turkish goverment holding in their hand aprox 70.000 old Greek Grass, Manlicher 1890 and 1903-14 and Romanian M 1893, some of those guns modified to Turk M35 mauser caliber to 7.9 mm for their Navy units and some of them sent to Afgan goverment , but in post WWII sold least 50.000 M1890 -M1903-14 Greek weopos to despirate arm seeking Friendly Greek goverment. via Italian technical repair help for those old and battle demaged rifles therefore WWII type Greek manlicher Schoauer riffles baer Italian new serial numbers and Trade stamp from Breda Gun Factories in Italia

Post WWI Greek pistoles was mostly French -Belgian revolvers such as Gasser and Labels plus Balkan war captured Bulgarian and Romanian Nagants.

regards

[Chavusch]

By the way Greek Manlicher -schoauer carbines are called Model 1907 and was much better quality than 1903 called M1890 Manlichers .

Istanbul Military museum Greek Section collection shows ;
1-Greek revolvers such as
11mm ordnance - sent etienne M 1973 and M 1874 , 11mm Gasser 1870,7,5mm Nagant Serbian model
2- Greek Pistols such as
7.63 mm Manlicher M1905, 7,65 MM Browning M 1900,

[The Edge]

Chavusch, please read: http://www.sunblest.net/gun/Mann03.htm

Dutch & Romanian Mannlichers use the same action as Greek model (seen first time on Mannlicher-Kropatschek M.1890 rifle (11mm black-powder ammo), but different magazines. Greek ammo is also different - same dimensions (6.5x54mm), same balistic, but more modern rimless cartridge.

[Idomeneas]

Regarding the artillery of the Hellenic Army in WWII, the following systems were in service:

Heavy Gun Schneider Mle 1917 155mm 60
Heavy Guns Schneider Mle 1925 105mm 48
HEavy Guns Μ Schneider Mle 1925 85mm 48
Heavy Guns Vickers-Armstrong 6’’ (152,4mm) 25
Heavy Guns Skoda 150mm * 11
Heavy Guns De Bange 1878-1916 Mle 1916 120mm 6
Heavy Guns Krupp 105mm * 3
Mountain Guns Schneider Mle 1919 105mm 120
Mountain Guns Schneider Mle 1919 75mm 192
Mountain Guns Schneider - Dagli Mle 1908 75mm 48
Mountain Guns Skoda m.1916 105mm * 7
Mountain Guns Skoda 75mm * 22
Mountain Guns Saint Etienne(?) Mle 1906 65mm 110
Field Guns Schneider-Canet Mle 1908 75mm * 56
Field Guns Schneider Mle 1907 75mm * 4
Field Guns Schneider Mle 1904 75mm * 20
Field Guns Krupp m. 1904-1910 75mm * 128

* Captured during the previous wars
In addition there were additional guns/cannon captured from previous wars that were not operational

[Idomeneas]

Regarding the antiaircraft and antitank artillery of the Helleinc Army, when Italy declared war on October 28, 1940 the following systems were in service:

A/A Artillery:
39 Flak 18 88mm (24 Army+15 Navy)
4 Bofors 80mm (Army)
6 Vickers 76mm (Air Force)
20 Terni??? 40mm (Navy)
57 Flak 36 37mm (54 Army+3 Navy)
108 Flak 30 20mm (Army + Navy)
32 Hotchkiss 13,2mm
241 Saint Etienne Mle 1907 8mm

A/T Artillery:
24 Pak 36 37mm
24 Boys 14mm