Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

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diazcalvi
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Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by diazcalvi » 09 May 2014 20:19

[Notice: On the second post you can see the lacquer covered helmet]


Hi guys, here is what I have to show you.
It has a nice story behind.

I bought this relic helmet from Germany (in total around 120-130 usd with shipping). I bought it with some other death cards, etc, that made the deal better. This was last week.

ANYWAY, when it arrived it was very rusty and dirty. Still is. But I started cleaning with water, medium pressure, to remove dirt. I can handle rust with the lacquer I have that seals the helmet (I did that for other relic and I like the result.. sort of plastified)
$_57 (19).jpg
The seller said that it was dug in the backyard, he didn't want anything to do with it. and that was it.
$_57 (21).jpg
THen, when cleaning I found what it looked like .. =
1) Cigarette bottoms, ewwww
2) Maybe bullets?
$_57 (20).jpg
So I called another collector friend that lives here in Texas and we started removing the dirt carefully (not enough), THERE WERE BULLETS!. We broke some of them on the process of getting a clear picture of the markings.
$_57 (24).jpg
The markings could be read, and they are Pistolen Patrone 43. Luger. The markings are "HLA" (Metallwarenfabrik Treuenbrietzen GmbH, Werk Sebaldushof, Treuenbrietzen, Brandenburg (1943-45); "St" made of steel; "43", the model; "17" code of the year 1944.
$_57 (23).jpg
So finally, we found a handful of bullets and also a decal (eagle decal) in the helmet under some rust. Now, Im not sure what is going on. I have two versions.

1) Was hid by a soldier, dug into some backyard with a cartridge of bullets in it.
2) Was stored on a basement base-up with a cartridge inside and got flooded or something. New owner found and sold it as it was.
3) Soldier shot on the right side, and then left with helmet, with his bullets close buy... but that's a long shot.

Asking 300 on Ebay. 250 from a forum member here. Basicall 100 over what I paid for it + bullets + story.... this is really something. Let me know also if you think someone was just tricking me.. but that would be a lot of work... I guess.
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diazcalvi
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by diazcalvi » 10 May 2014 00:03

Part 2...

And here is the helmet itself after some cleaning and anti-rust lacquer. There is still some dirt but I dont want to touch as it's very fragile. Now with the lacquer it should be better. Besides that, you can see the eagle decal. That I believe is original. But you never know (because I also have another relic bought from Latvia with single decal that was flagged as repro decal, but genuine helmet)

Right Side
$_57.JPG
And the eagle decal on the left
20140502_075047_resized.jpg
Top View
$_57 (1).jpg

Front View:
$_57 (2).jpg


Anyway... hope you enjoy it.

And if you like it, let me know. 250 for forum members + shipping,
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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 10 May 2014 06:12

Oh man, you screwed up!!!!!!!! By applying that laquer you trashed an interesting ground dug(grave robbed) helmet.
Now in reality worthless.. Never,never restore relics, Remember, rust is permanent,.

You just *hosed* yourself!! :(

diazcalvi
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by diazcalvi » 10 May 2014 06:32

Really?, I appreciate the advice, with honesty. Will take care next time. Is not my first relic, I just don't want it to fade away.
I have also another german helmet, and I like it better with the rust protection, I'm trying to be honest. But I understand if now has no value for a more experienced collector. Here are two examples of bad shape helmets that I hope - and I really do - protected from future decay.
$_57 (7).jpg
$_57 (6).JPG
Cascos Face15.jpg
I really appreciate the advice, I still think is an interesting piece, rusty and muddy (although I left most of the dirt.. just to be careful).
Thanks Mark
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diazcalvi
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by diazcalvi » 10 May 2014 06:38

Now that I re-read again. Grave-robbed? Man, that's another story. I've never thought of that. Not sure if that makes it a terrible/despicable item. I just liked how the relics look after some cleaning and lacquer (sorry I insist, I know better now) ... Not sure why would someone be buried with a working cartridge of bullets though. It came from Germany... normally all this relics are coming from Latvia now. More precisely from Sigmaringen, Germany

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John G.
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by John G. » 10 May 2014 11:19

You should only do the "minimum necessary" to preserve what "originality" a recovered helmet has left..... from the look of it, the 1st helmet you posted (with the Army decal) probably has the petrified remains of a cover (maybe not....but looks possible) adheared to the shell.... removal exposed the decal (which does look original) but would have been nice if preserved.... the bullets inside were probably just "coincidental" to the helmet's life, but adds interest... and speculation. Most likely just dug out of a bunker, trench line, or unfortunately, from a grave...

The other helmets you posted.... the "Tricolor" decal on the M-40 German is NOT Original nor is the majority of the paint and red star original on the Russian....(commonly added to dug helmets then "aged" for effect....) beware of MANY FAKED DUG helmets from Baltic states and from Russia, some with high quality fake decals....including excellent fake SS!

There are much better cleaning and preservation methods..... check the larger "collector" forums (Wehr. Awards Forum, others) that have extensive opinions/methods to consider....

I wouldn't say you ruined anything....but you haven't helped them (for sure)....
Just my opinion.... but "less is best"....
John G.

OPPS! Just realized this is listed in the "for sale" section...... my comments are not directed toward that!

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 12 May 2014 06:49

I just do not like helmets with oil/laquer/plastic spray coating. And John G is correct in that the Russian, and the tri color shield are fake. Now here is a grave robbed lid posted over on GDC.These with the head/skull are common over in Europe, where grave robbing, and dug relics are common
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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 12 May 2014 06:51

2
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by history1 » 12 May 2014 09:15

Mark in Cleveland, Tn. wrote:[...] These with the head/skull are common over in Europe, where grave robbing, and dug relics are common
I`m expecting a correction of this statement, Mark.

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Simon H
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Re: Just DugOut German Helmet / with Bullets (Surprise!)

Post by Simon H » 10 Jun 2014 15:53

John G. wrote:You should only do the "minimum necessary" to preserve what "originality" a recovered helmet has left..... from the look of it, the 1st helmet you posted (with the Army decal) probably has the petrified remains of a cover (maybe not....but looks possible) adheared to the shell.... removal exposed the decal (which does look original) but would have been nice if preserved.... the bullets inside were probably just "coincidental" to the helmet's life, but adds interest... and speculation....There are much better cleaning and preservation methods..... check the larger "collector" forums (Wehr. Awards Forum, others) that have extensive opinions/methods to consider....

I wouldn't say you ruined anything....but you haven't helped them (for sure)....
Just my opinion.... but "less is best"....
John G.
Not sure I can see any remains of a cover on that helmet John, no sign of any clips or remains of on the rim either. Restoration/stabilisation method is a matter of choice, depending on the condition of the shell. If it is very badly corroded then stabilsation is better than attempting to remove all rust, as this can destroy the item - which I think is what Mark is saying.

Interesting item, although a bit overpriced for what it is.

Kind Regards,
Simon
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