► Photothread: Wehrmacht fuel tankers

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Ostkatze
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They put a man on the moon?

Post by Ostkatze » 25 Jan 2007 04:00

I try not to go in for conspiracy stuff, but there's something about that Benzinlager photo. The angle of the shadows in foreground, the crispness of the shadows in the background and the general 2D-ishness of the barrel clusters against what is a normal greying/fading panorama.?? Neil ( if you believe...)

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Ostkatze
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Post by Ostkatze » 25 Jan 2007 05:13

On further examination... maybe I WAS weirding out a little. It just strikes me as staged and too clear for a 40's aerial shot. The relative size of the background dumps up the hill. The total lack of human presence. Maybe a scene-check shot from above before filming that cheesy "Tiger" refueling scene in Spain during the "Battle of the Bulge"?? Neil.

protze
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Post by protze » 25 Jan 2007 19:51

Once I have read about German Panzers in Russia who are pulling a one axle trailer loaded with 2 200 liter drums. This seems to me in battle not so efficient, but perhaps the Germans do this to carry more fuel for their Panzers on the long trips to the battletheatres in the East. Are there pictures from these trailers? I think it is the Sd.Ah. 454?

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Panzermacher
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Post by Panzermacher » 25 Jan 2007 21:26

There's a picture of a Panzer IV D of the 3rd SS totenkopf during Kursk using one of these rigs, more likely these trailers are used to bring fuel up to the staging point prior to the attack, when Panzers had to travel more than 50klm in an AO they were usually entrained, road marches longer than this put too much strain on the vehicles & the maintainance personnel.

Bill Murray
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Post by Bill Murray » 25 Jan 2007 22:50

Not to beat the laager photo to death, but....
Looking at the photo carefully, no two groups of barrels seems to look the same which adds some reality to the photo.
Next, they would have been following Standard Operating Procedure or whatever it is called in German by spreading out the groups of barrels to protect against air attacks or artillery or whatever.
I don't know if this procedure was followed all the time, but I do know some American commanders got in a lot of trouble when they piled massive amounts of both fuel and ammunition in single huge dumps and they were successfully attacked and the whole lot went up This was after D-Day and I suppose that speed was of the essence and protection was not thought of as all that necessary.
Bill

protze
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Post by protze » 26 Jan 2007 14:54

Sander D wrote: do believe it's a tatra truck but not a 27B,see picture.
Take a close look at these 3 vehicles in the second row,the other vehicle are Tatra T85 tankers. I did a search for the type of it,but with no result.

Could it be a Skoda? Herewith 3 pictures of the six-wheeled Skoda 6VD.
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SIS 5
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Post by SIS 5 » 26 Jan 2007 17:46

Hallo Protze, hi all others,

here are three pics of the trailer with two 200 litres barrels, used in the first days of the campaign of Barbarossa, the war against the USSR, to be independent of the transport of fuel. On the third pic you can see the trailer behind a truck (in the center of the picture).
(Sources: 1st pic: "Panzer" by Niall Barr and Russell Hart, 2nd and 3rd pic: "German armoured warfare of WW II" by Ian Baxter)

Regards

Bert
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protze
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Post by protze » 26 Jan 2007 17:55

Hi Sis 5: Nice pictures!

Keessmit
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Tatra mystery tanktruck is a tank trailer

Post by Keessmit » 26 Jan 2007 21:32

Franzl Rider wrote on Jan 16th:

Onderwerp: WH Fuel truck in France 1940
Is this an Army fuel truck? Picture was taken in France june 1940. From ebay
________________________________________

Sander D wrote on Jan 19th:

I do believe it's a tatra truck but not a 27B,see picture.
Take a close look at these 3 vehicles in the second row,the other vehicle are Tatra T85 tankers.
I did a search for the type of it,but with no result.
________________________________________

This might solve your questions.

In 1938, as a part of a Czechoslovak armaments programm, Tatra built fuel trailers meant to be towed by T 85 trucks. A trailer prototype photo is attached. The production tanktrailer - I never saw a photo before; thanks - apparently had a more modern styling and is seen on both Frankl Rider and Sander D's photos.

Best regards
Kees
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Bill Murray
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Post by Bill Murray » 26 Jan 2007 22:50

Well, Kees, I won't speak for the others, but I feel a bit the fool for looking at dozens of sites, books and photo files for a Tatra truck, never thinking of a trailer.

I don't feel totally foolish though, considering it has what seems to be a crew cab on the front. On the other hand, if you photoshop the picture of the large group of trucks, you can just see the tow bar which I missed.

Very good detective work, my friend, and if I may ask, where did you find that prototype photo? I have a fair bit of good resources but never saw that one.
Bill

protze
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Post by protze » 27 Jan 2007 09:31

Hi Kees,

What a surprise. A trailer instead of a truck. Lets hope somebody finds or has pics of the production type and the technical figures of this trailer. The capital of this curious vehicle is still open.

Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 27 Jan 2007 09:52

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the kind words. Not knowing Tatra built these trailers and the crew cabin of course fools one. I hadn't recognised Drankl Rider's photo as a Tatra trailer either as I was unfamiliar with the more modern design of the procuction tank trailer. When I saw Sander D's photo, it was however crystal clear to me.
I don't think the photo was ever published. I looked through a number of Czech Tatra books, but nothing.
The photo comes from a private collection. I have been investigating Tatra's role in WWII as part of a to be written book on Tatra. Problem is that the Nazis wiped out all Czech influence on Tatra's history (the factory was in the Sudetenlands and the German character of the factory had yo be emphasised) and that later the Communists wiped out all German influence. Archives were lost and the glass plates of WWII product were changed so that German registrations and markings were lost.

What I like about the Axis History Forum is that by discussing vehicles, our knowledge improves.

Best regards
Kees

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Sander D
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Post by Sander D » 27 Jan 2007 15:19

Bill wrote :
Well, Kees, I won't speak for the others, but I feel a bit the fool for looking at dozens of sites, books and photo files for a Tatra truck, never thinking of a trailer.
For me the same Bill ,when you see the cabin you think it's a truck,i never thought it would be a trailer .
I never noticed the tow bar in frond of the vehicle,but when you look at the picture that i posted every T85 tankwagen is towing a tatra fuel trailer.

It's just like Kees said :
What I like about the Axis History Forum is that by discussing vehicles, our knowledge improves
Good finding Kees,thanks for the picture.

Some digging on my hard drive ,2 more back side pictures of the tatra fuel trailer.
On the firts picture you can see the tow bar hanging on the ground :

Image

Image

Cheers

Sander

Keessmit
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Post by Keessmit » 27 Jan 2007 17:10

Thanks all.
Great photos Sander!
The T 85 had identical operation controls for its tank as the trailer.
I enclose the best photo I could find.
Regards
Kees
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protze
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Post by protze » 27 Jan 2007 20:06

It seems that the Tatra fueltrailer has a differential. In that case, the auxillery fuelpumpmotor in the back is perhaps also the "drivingmotor" from the trailer when it's uncoupled from the towing truck.
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