► Photothread: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

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Keessmit
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Keessmit » 30 Jan 2011 10:55

Wolfsangel wrote:
Weird! What exactly is this? Some kind of KdF prototype, or a converstion of a wartime vehicle?
I don't know anything about this vehicle

It seems to have the windscreen and surrounding panel of a soft top beetle. IIIA numberplates are commonly seen on beetles pre WW2 and during WW2. Not sure about the IIIB, though I think they are of the same era. Is the guy sitting in the car Dr. F. Porsche ?

Here is a pic of a soft top beetle with a strange aerial rigged up in it

Image

W.A.
This sunroof VW Typ 60 with registration IIIA 43011 was known as the "Radiocar"
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Luftflotte2 » 30 Jan 2011 20:39

Thanks Keessmit not knowing what that car was was bugging me.

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Matt Gibbs
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Matt Gibbs » 30 Jan 2011 23:36

Ah nice, I like the other photo, and many thanks for tracking down the info. I have seen some other pictures of Kaes but would not have recognised him. The IIIA 0426 prototype number plate might have clued me in though :) I think these were the red on white special number plates issued to manufacturers to test new products on the roads? I know I have seen details of the IIIA 43011 number plate somewhere. I think this is one of the last series of pre production cars under test. Didn't they go on a long distance proving trials trip? Perhaps they took a radio to keep in touch with the works or something?

I might be getting confused. It is a long time since I read into the subject when I subscribed to the VW Old Timer Magazine of Bob Shaill. I have a horrible feeling that my KdF folder was lost in my last house move :(

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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Keessmit » 31 Jan 2011 00:47

There are some other photos of the Radiowagen (radiocar) with the same numberplate though this numberplate was also used on a normal saloon (i.e. without sunroof) used during the war by Prof Porsche himself when visiting Vienna.
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by murx » 01 Feb 2011 03:37

Three more pictures. (Tip: The early test drivers' last names both started with "H". :-)) I could also offer the original service handbook of the Kübelwagen. Text on the wallpaper: Save 5 marks per week to drive an own car-
055f.jpg
055h.jpg
055e.jpg
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Matt Gibbs
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Matt Gibbs » 01 Feb 2011 15:16

Got to love the propaganda and sales teams at the DAF for coming up with that natty sales slogan, it even rhymes.

5 Mark die Woche musst Du sparen -
willst Du in eignen Wagen Fahren!

I also love the ideas for those little savings tins where you had to put in the 5 marks before it somehow opens up, so you can then run around to the DAF office and buy your little savings stamp :D for your Sparkarte. I've had several of these KdF related collectables over the years but sadly all gone now.

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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Alpenfestung » 05 Feb 2011 20:40

Thank you Kees for the information on the VW62 Kuebelwagen prototype. There are pictures of this car driving up the Kehlsteinstrasse in one of my Obersalzberg books, I had no idea what type of VW it was.

Peter
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Mark V » 05 Feb 2011 21:30

Keessmit wrote: I looked through my books and found detailed info on this very car.
The actual car is the very first 1938 Typ 62. It was designed by Franz Xaver Reimpiess while its body was designed by Reutter. Chassis was a VW 38 one. It was criticized by the military authorities for its two-wheel drive, limited ground clearance and inability to tow a gun. Military personnel thought it to pretty, the reason why the final Kuebelwagen got more aggressive looks. The car was pensioned off but Herbert Kaes (The man sitting in the Kuebelwagen on the photo), was allowed to use it. Kaes was with Porsche since 1936. He assisted Porsche in his garage and drove and tested all prototypes. He repainted the prototype Kuebelwagen in a two-tone livery with dark blue wings. It was donated to Hitler and therefore was registered at Berchtesgaden with a Upper Bavarian IIB registration. The fate of the car is unknown.
Kees
Hi.

Thanks for the great info, though-

- you spoiled my spoof that it was Adolph himself nightcruzing in empty wartime Bavarian Alp roads - i guess Adolph dismissed that Kubel and stick to his Merc as you can't hang out elbow while cruising in that because there were no doors :-) - in addition to poor low down torque of that boxer versus big Merc engine he was used to.

And the standard cabriolet Beetle with doors was not any better...

Look at the picture murx posted. Adolph trying desparately find an comfy place for his elbow in that tincan, obviously not enjoying the ride.

Image


I guess everyone knows from where Nazi salute originated ?

It was when Adolph cruised in Beetle prototype, sedan this time, around Berlin in freezing cold weather - raising his right hand over to ventilation slots feeling the air coming out from them, as he was freezing, and the cabin heater was at max setting. Like anyone who have owned VW Beetle knows, it is not the warmest car in the winter...

...the Berliners saw their leader driving an rare prototype of the long awaited "peoples car" and returned the salute he was giving to them... rest is history.


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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Keessmit » 05 Feb 2011 22:46

Alpenfestung wrote:Thank you Kees for the information on the VW62 Kuebelwagen prototype. There are pictures of this car driving up the Kehlsteinstrasse in one of my Obersalzberg books, I had no idea what type of VW it was.

Peter
Thanks Alpenfestung (and Mark V),
I enclose another photo of this very car. As your profile and your remarks indicate that you have a great interest in the Eagle Nest, let me ask you a question.
I am more a Tatra fan than a VW fan and years ago someone told me he saw a film/documentary some Nazi visting Berchtesgaden using a Tatra T87 streamliner. Does this ring a bell? Of course I would not only love to see the shot somehow but info about who was using the Tatra and what on what occaision is most welcome.
Kees
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hanno spoelstra
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by hanno spoelstra » 06 Feb 2011 20:31

See Ebay item no. 180619267154 for a 1939 drivers instruction book. It features a picture of the KdF-Wagen.
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Alpenfestung
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Alpenfestung » 06 Feb 2011 21:22

Keessmit wrote:I am more a Tatra fan than a VW fan and years ago someone told me he saw a film/documentary some Nazi visting Berchtesgaden using a Tatra T87 streamliner. Does this ring a bell? Of course I would not only love to see the shot somehow but info about who was using the Tatra and what on what occaision is most welcome.
Kees
Kees,
I don't recall seeing any pictures or footage of a Tatra 87 . I wonder if it could have been Ernst Heinkel on one of his visits to the Berghof - he supposedly owned a T87. I'll let you know if I come across anything.

Thanks for posting the Kuebelwagen picture - so that's what they had for doors!
Peter
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Luftflotte2 » 06 Feb 2011 21:47

Some more bits about the Beetle from http://www.forocoches.com/foro/showthread.php?t=1577663
These lists were created to survey the VW38 and know their owners, were created in 1940 and 1944 respectively

Body no / license plate / body type / destination / location 1940

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 2 IIIA - 13114 delivery vehicle - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 3 IIIA - 43003 H Dr. Porsche KG, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 4 IIIA - 43004 H Klauser Hans customer service / / Fallersleben
38 / 5 IIIA - 43005 H DAF, Mr. Marrenbach / / Berlin
38 / 6 IIIA - 43006 H Dr. Act / / DAF, Berlin
38 / 7 IIIA - 43007 H - / / customer service Hans Klausner
38 / 8 IIIA - Dr. Posch KG 43008 H, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 9 IIIA - 43002 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/10 IIIA - 43010 R Dr. Piech / / Dr. Piech
38/11 IIIA - 43011 R Dr. Porsche / / Dr. Porsche KG
IIIA 38/12 - DAF H 43012, Munich / / DAF, Munich
38/13 IIIA - 43013 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
IIIB 38/14 - '39 Kubelwagen Typ 62 215162 Reichskanzlei / / Dr. Porsche KG
Dr. Porsche test car 38/15 KG / / Volkswagenwerk administration, Berlin
38/16 IIIA - 43016 R, finished 1940 Dyckhoff, director of Volkswagenwerk, Fallersleben / / Dr. Lafferentz, executive secretary of Volkswagenwerk GmbH
38/17 IIIA - 43017 R Dr. Act / / Dr. Law
38/18 IIIA - 43018 R Dr. Act / / Dr. Law
38/19 IIIA - 43015 H Volkswagenwerk administration, Berlin / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/20 IIIA - 43020 OKH / / Dr. Porsche KG, Typ 82 Kubelwagen
38/21 IIIA - 43021 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG, Kübelwagen
38/22 IIIA - 43022 R Gauleiter Wagner, Munich / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/23 IIIA - 43023 R test car / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/24 IIIA - 43024 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/25 IIIA - 43025 H - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/26 IIIA - 43026 H - / / customer service
Without Dr. Porsche engine 38/27 KG / / Dr. Porsche KG
Without 38/28 '39 chassis engine model instruction as to Fallersleben; body to Bosch for electrical testing / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/29 IIIA - 43009 R test car - / / Dr. Porsche KG
38/30 chassis only instruction model for customer service, Fallersleben / / Dr. Porsche KG, driven righthand Typ 66
38/31 IA - 148564 convertible Reichskanzler Hitler / / Reichskanzler Hitler *
38/32 IIIA - 43019 R test car - / / Dr. Porsche KG
Kübelwagen 38/33 - Reichskanzlei Dr. Act / / Dr. Porsche KG
122 Stationary engine Typ 38/34 Reichspost / / Dr. Law
122 Stationary engine Typ 38/35 Signature Stiel, Hamburg / / Dr. Porsche KG, Kübelwagen
38/36 IIIA - 43044 R test car - / / Goebels *
38/37 IA - 148564 convertible - / / Göring *
IIA 38/38 - Rudolf Hess convertible 60705 / / Rudolf Hess *

before 12/31/1940:

38/39 IIIA - 43032
38/40 IA - Dr. Act 4848 convertible
38/41 IIIA - 0703 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ
38/42 IIIA - 43028
38/43 IIIA - 0687 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ
38/44 IIIA - 43029
38/45 IA - 223232 convertible Reichsmarschall Göring, Berlin
38/46 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ

-------------------------------------------------- ------------

no body. license plate body type

IIIA - 43 001 38 / 1 H
IIIA - 43 002 38 / 9 H
IIIA - 43003 38 / 3 H
IIIA - 43 004 38 / 4 H
IIIA - 43 005 38 / 5 H
IIIA - 43,006 38 / 6 H
IIIA - 43 007 38 / 7 H
IIIA - 43 008 38 / 8 H
IIIA - 43 009 R 38/29
IIIA - 43 010 R 38/10
IIIA - 43 011 R 38/11
IIIA - 43 012 38/12 H
IIIA - 43 013 38/13 H
IIIA - 43 015 38/19 H
IIIA - 43 016 R 38/16
IIIA - 43 017 R 38/17
IIIA - 43 018 R 38/18
IIIA - 43 019 R 38/32
IIIA - 43 020 38 / 20 Kubelwagen
IIIA - 43 021 38/21 H Kübelwagen Later
IIIA - 43 022 R 38/22
IIIA - 43 023 R 38/23
IIIA - 43 024 38/24 H
IIIA - 43 025 38/25 H
IIIA - 43 026 38/26 H; rounded corners on decklid
III A - 43027 R, rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43,028 38/42 R; rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43,029 38/44 rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43 032 R 38/39
IIIA - 43,035 38/31 rounded corners on decklid
IIIA - 43 044 R 38/36

January 1944

no body. / License plate / body type / location 1944

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H Dr. Porsche KG
38 / 7 IIIA - 43007 H Hans Klausner customer service
38 / 8 IIIA - 43008 H Dr. Porsche KG
38/10 IIIA - 43010 R Dr. Piech
38/13 IIIA - 43013 H Dr. Porsche KG
38/19 IIIA - 43015 H Dr. Porsche KG
38/21 IIIA - 43021 H Dr. Porsche KG, Kübelwagen
38/25 IIIA - 43025 H Dr. Porsche KG
Without engine 38/27 Dr. Porsche KG
Without engine 38/28 Dr. Porsche KG
38/30 chassis only driven righthand Dr. Porsche Typ 66 KG
38/31 IA - 148564 convertible Reichskanzler Hitler *
38/32 IIIA - 43019 R Dr. Porsche KG
Dr. Porsche KG Kübelwagen 38/33

2GM After the list was as follows:

no body. / License plate / body type / notes 1945

38 / 1 IIIA - 43001 H
38 / 8 IIIA - 43008 H
38/11 IIIA - 43011 R
38/13 IIIA - 43013 H Typ 230 / 5 HK-Generator
38/19 IIIA - 43015 R
38/24 IIIA - 43024 H Typ 230 / 4, HK-Generator
38/25 IIIA - 43025 H Typ 230 / 7 HK-Generator
38/29 IIIA - 43009 R electrical
IIIA 38/32 - HK-Generator R 43019
38/43 IIIA - 0687 Berlin-Rom-Wagen 64 Typ
Prof. offen Kdf Porsche
Dr. Piech Kdf offen
38/47 131/47 chassis

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Matt Gibbs
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Matt Gibbs » 08 Feb 2011 15:32

That photo of the 62 prototype is lovely, with all those other cars in the background :)
I seem to recall seeing that sign on the building over the door somewhere else, probably a standard exhortation sent round by the DAF?


I don't recall seeing one in the Frentz book Hitler's Berghof, but it is of course possible that there might have been one on one of the Deutsches Wochenshau newsreels or something? Hitler was interested in the Tatra, and there is a photo [or 2?] of him examining cars on the Tatra stand at one of the Berlin Motor Shows.

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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by hanno spoelstra » 08 Feb 2011 22:26


Keessmit
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Re: Volkswagen Beetle - Vw Käfer thread

Post by Keessmit » 09 Feb 2011 01:14

Matt Gibbs wrote:That photo of the 62 prototype is lovely, with all those other cars in the background :)
I seem to recall seeing that sign on the building over the door somewhere else, probably a standard exhortation sent round by the DAF?


I don't recall seeing one in the Frentz book Hitler's Berghof, but it is of course possible that there might have been one on one of the Deutsches Wochenshau newsreels or something? Hitler was interested in the Tatra, and there is a photo [or 2?] of him examining cars on the Tatra stand at one of the Berlin Motor Shows.
Yes there is a photo of Hitler visiting the Tatra stand at the 1934 IAA and yes Ernst Heinkel owned a Tatra T 87. Apart from that there is this hearsay that a T87 visited Berchtesgaden and it made me curious. Thanks anyway and I also am a liitle reluctant to discuss Tatra here as it is a KdF-VW thread.

Let me conclude the KdF62 prototype postings by another posting of the Kübelwagen prototype.
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