► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

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SIS 5
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by SIS 5 » 21 Apr 2020 23:14

Hi Sturm 78,

a very interesting pic. Thank You very much for posting. Could these field kitchens be the Polish Kuchnia polowa wz. 31? Here two drawings of this field kitchen.

Best regards

Bert
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Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Sturm78 » 22 Apr 2020 20:03

Hi Bert.

Ummhhh,...it could be....another option is the Wz.23 Polish kitchen, a very similar model to the Wz.31.

I've really only seen one image of the M09 model with rotating stove top here :
http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Homepage_ ... ehbar.html
Now I wonder if this photo really is not also a Polish model, really.... :?

It seems the the Polish used many different models of kitchens during the interwar years...

Sturm78
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SIS 5
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by SIS 5 » 24 Apr 2020 07:19

Hi Sturm 78,

thank You very, very much for Your reply. It is really great to have a discussion with an expert like You. I totally agree with You that the Polish field kitchens wz. 23 and 31 are very similar, but there are differences. After looking several times at the field kitchens on Your pic, I discovered that the other field kitchen in the background is a wz. 23. Here two pics of these field kitchens. The visible difference is the opening of the fire place.

Your comment to the image of the M09 model with rotating stove is very interesting. May be You are right, that the field kitchen on this photo is a Polish model. I will give attention to this question and answer to You.

Best regards

Bert
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SIS 5
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by SIS 5 » 24 Apr 2020 09:41

Hi Sturm 78,

here my answer to Your comment according to the image of the M09 model with rotating stove. I think now that You are right. For me it is a captured Polish field kitchen wz. 31, a motorized field modification made by the Germans. There was a motorized Polish version of the field kitchen wz. 31, but it has other wheels. (source of the second pic: "Gulaschkanonen Feldküchen - Bäckereien - Zubehör und Ausstattung 1935 - 1945" by Horst Hinrichsen).

Bets regards

Bert
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Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Sturm78 » 24 Apr 2020 17:23

Thank you very much for your comments, Bert.....I do not consider myself an expert, far from it.
In fact, my main source of information on this topic is Internet.

About the image of http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Homepage_ ... ehbar.html I think it could be a Wz.23.
I am not sure but I think one of the characteristics of the Wz.23 model is a compartment with a wire mesh in the front of the kitchen.
The drawing I posted of the Wz.23 is not very good but I would say that have this compartment...

I had this image on my hard drive identified as an M09 but now I think it is a Wz.23 model for this reason..

Which is your opinion ?

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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SIS 5
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by SIS 5 » 26 Apr 2020 07:08

Hi Sturm 78,

thank You very much for Your competent reply and the very interesting pic. The Polish field kitchens wz. 23 and 31 are very similar. They both have three large feed boilers and a further small feed boiler in front of the chimney. Normally two small containers were located to the left and right of the small feed boiler.
But now to the differences between the two types as far as I know:
- the small feed boiler of wz. 23 had a higher position than of wz. 31;
- the two containers have a different location, the wz. nearer to the axis of the field kitchen
- and for me a very important difference, the wheels of wz. 23 had 12 bolts, the newer wz 31. only six, similar to the Germans field kitchens Hf. 12 and 14. So I think that the field kitchen on Your pic is not a wz. 23, but a wz. 31.
Now to the other characteristic You mentioned, the compartment with a wire mesh in the front of the kitchen: I think that both types had this compartment. Here two pics of these field kitchens for comparing:
pic 1 (https://pl-pl.facebook.com/218822181468 ... 826255703/);
pic 2 (https://forum.odkrywca.pl/topic/151375- ... e/page/11/)

Best regards

Bert
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Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Sturm78 » 26 Apr 2020 19:40

Thanks for your reply. Bert

Well, It seems that you are right about the frontal compartment.
Thank you for the other differences. :)
The wartime images often are the bad quality and it is very difficult to see these small differences with clarity...

I think another difference betwwen both models are the rear "wire mesh" compartment of the limber. It seems that in the Wz.31 is taller while in the Wz.23 model it is lower and does not use a wire frame but rather metal slats.

Which is your opinion about this one ? It seems to have 6 bolts in the wheels but the the rear opening of the fireplace not match with Wz.23.... :?

Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by SIS 5 » 28 Apr 2020 14:58

Hi Sturm 78,

thank You very much for Your reply and the pic, another time very interesting. I totally agree with You according to the difference between the rear compartments of the limber.
To Your question about the field kitchen on Your pic. Yes, this kitchen has only 6 bolts in the wheels, but for me the the rear opening of the fireplace does match with Wz.23. Maybe it is the advanced version 23 A. I only know that there was this version, but I don´t have more information. Here a pic with the rear opening of the fireplace wz. 23. Sorry for the bad quality.

Best regards

Bert
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Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Sturm78 » 28 Apr 2020 21:21

Excuse me, Bert...I meant to say "It seems to have 6 bolts in the wheels but the the rear opening of the fireplace not match with Wz.31"

Well, maybe there were intermediate models...

Another two Polish. These kitchens not match neither Wz.23 nor Wz.31 and neither with the later Wz.36 .... :?

Sturm78
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Maxschnauzer
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Maxschnauzer » 29 Apr 2020 03:38

Hello Sturm and Bert,
I appreciate your very informative discussion of Polish field kitchens. I have learned much from you both. You may find this photo of a few field kitchens among other captured Polish equipment of interest. Do you know the identity of the small "square top" in the foreground?
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Max

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Maxschnauzer
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Maxschnauzer » 29 Apr 2020 06:16

A seagoing Sd. Ah. 401:
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Cheers,
Max

Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Sturm78 » 29 Apr 2020 09:25

Max wrote
You may find this photo of a few field kitchens among other captured Polish equipment of interest. Do you know the identity of the small "square top" in the foreground?
Ummhh...the Wz.36 polish field kitchen had a square body, with 4 feed boilers but with a square profile, not circular as in your image....

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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by SIS 5 » 29 Apr 2020 15:15

Hi Sturm 78,

thank You very much for the two pics. Very interesting again! You are right. The two field kitchens on the pics You posted don´t match neither with Wz.23 nor Wz.31 and neither with Wz.36. I think they are Austrian-Hungarian kitchens model M 1916. Here a pic of this kitchen, sorry for the bad quality, but I have no better one. But there is one field kitchen M 1915 in a museum, but not all parts are true to the original. Please have a look: http://www.landships.info/landships/sof ... M1915.html

Best regards

Bert
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Sturm78
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Sturm78 » 29 Apr 2020 21:36

Thank you, once again, for your help, Bert. :)

I have to admit my almost total ignorance of the different models of field kitchens used by the Austro-Hungarian army during the First World War.

I only knew the M1909 model.
Now I also know this M1915 model and in the link that you have uploaded it talks about an M1905 model too.

To finish with the kitchens used by Poland, I have obtained the following images that also do not fit with any of the models that I know

Any ideas ?
The last two are similar to the model Wz.36 but the feed boilers not match... :?

Sturm78
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Maxschnauzer
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Re: ► Photothread: Field Kitchens in Context

Post by Maxschnauzer » 30 Apr 2020 03:37

Sturm78 wrote:
29 Apr 2020 09:25
Max wrote
You may find this photo of a few field kitchens among other captured Polish equipment of interest. Do you know the identity of the small "square top" in the foreground?
Ummhh...the Wz.36 polish field kitchen had a square body, with 4 feed boilers but with a square profile, not circular as in your image....

Sturm78
Thank you, Sturm.
Cheers,
Max

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