► Photothread: German armoured trains

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hucks216
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by hucks216 » 02 Aug 2013 13:48

Not photos as such but a couple of pages from a Soldbuch to a soldier who served on Panzerzug (s.Sp.) 201.
First image shows his unit listings and the second image shows the signatures of Hauptmann Albert Hellstern (who would go on to command PZ-30) and Oberleutnant Helmut Schmitz-Reinthal who commanded PZ (s.Sp.) 201.
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hucks216
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by hucks216 » 02 Aug 2013 13:54

A couple of pages from a Wehrpass for a soldier who served on Panzerzug 2 from 1939 to 1941. The first image shows the unit listings while the second shows the signature of Oberleutnant Albert Krumteich, the original Commanding Officer for PZ-2.
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hucks216
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by hucks216 » 02 Aug 2013 14:06

And finally a handful of images from a Soldbuch for a soldier who served on Panzerzug 64. The first image shows the unit listings, the second image shows two examples of the signature of Oberleutnant/Hauptmann Werner Sieg who commanded PZ-64 from 1943 to the war's end. And the third image shows the signature of Oberleutnant Rudolf Opitz who commanded a Marsch-Kompanie from Eisenbahn-Panzerzug-Ersatz-Abteilung.
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Varadero
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Varadero » 31 Aug 2013 08:50

German Pzzug in France 1940. From ebay.
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Varadero
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Varadero » 31 Aug 2013 08:54

Pzzug on the Eastern Front. Date on picture states August 1941, but whether that's a bit early dated?. From ebay.
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Sturm78
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 03 Sep 2013 10:03

Hi all,

An armoured loco. I think a captured soviet Type O, probably

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Sturm78
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 12 Oct 2013 13:37

Hi all,

I think a polish armoured armoured train:

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Sturm78
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Sturm78 » 19 Oct 2013 10:18

Hi all,

Not an armoured train but..... :roll:
Does somebody the German designation of this device?

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peeved
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by peeved » 19 Oct 2013 12:21

Hi Sturm,

Schienenwolf.

Markus

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photo-war
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by photo-war » 19 Oct 2013 18:31

Dear Forum members!

Any chance to identify this German armored train? The information s known about this photo that train was damaged by Soviet aviation and later captured by Red Army.

Any help will be appreciated!

Best regards,
Alexander
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Dann Falk
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Dann Falk » 19 Oct 2013 20:16

First of all, this is a late war German armored train, 1944-1945.

My best guess is this one of the new type of standardized armored trains, PZ 30 or maybe PZ 69?
Because the PZ type were standardized it will be difficult to identify this particular train without having other views or some idea of the location.

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photo-war
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by photo-war » 20 Oct 2013 09:42

Hello Dann! Many thanks for your input. There are two enlarged fragments of this photo, may be this helps to find out what train is this. There is no info about date or place where this image was taken.

Best regards,
Alex
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Dann Falk
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Dann Falk » 20 Oct 2013 18:53

Thanks for the new photos they help.

I did a review of my books covering German armored trains and did not find much:
1. The enlargements confirm the standardized PZ type of train.
2. The camouflage reflects late war 44-45 practice.
3. By the look of the overall damage and the Panzer IV turret in line with the train (not defending against a ground attack) an air attack is most likely the cause of the damage.
4. The steam engine appears to be damaged; this is why the armored train was abandoned/captured.

My guess, and only a guess, is that this train was lost somewhere in the North/Central part of the front in late 1944. It looks cold and dark, with the train cars having winter whitewash.

I hope this helps.
Dann

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Re: German armoured trains

Post by photo-war » 20 Oct 2013 19:36

Dann many thanks for your help with this image!!!!

Best regards,
Alexander

Wolfsangel
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Re: German armoured trains

Post by Wolfsangel » 21 Oct 2013 12:02

Hello

It is a most likely a late war BP-44.

It is unusual in that it has the Quad 20mm fully armoured flak turret. Only a few pictures exist of BP armoured trains with the armoured flak turret. Which is why it is most likely one of the last BP-44s. It does not look to be an earlier Panzerzug re-built to BP 42/44 standards.

I don't think there is evidence that this train was for certain destroyed by air attack. The pictures are unclear.

It is equally likely that the train was blown up the crew before abandoning it, and was the practice, where possible, to prevent them falling intact to the enemy who could then use them against their former owners.

The gun turrets are blown off the Kanonenwagen, the T-38 in the Panzertraegerwagen has been comprehensively blown apart, and the roof has been blown off the Pz IV turret.

Internal explosions would seem to fit the catastrophic damage to the gun turrets and magazine areas, as well as the tanks.

BP42/44 trains that were cut off, and then blown up by their own crew (to prevent capture) were;

Panzerzug 75 at Belgard on 5th March 1945,
Panzerzug 79 at Celldolmolk on 27th March 1945

Panzerzug 72a and 72b were also blown up by their own crews in March 1945 (at Kolberg and Oxhoft), but known photos of these show they differ in configuration to the train in your picture.

The only Panzerzug that was destroyed late in the war, in combat, was Panzerzug 77, on 26 February 1945 at Bublitz. Its not recorded in my sources whether the combat involved air or ground attack. or both.

There are other possibilities, but it is most likely Panzerzug 75, 77 or 79.

cheers
Neil

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