► Photothread: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

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Mark Lawson
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Mark Lawson » 11 Mar 2012 23:42

Panzer V wrote:1st-I/Pz Rgt 15 11 PD Panzerwrecks.

2nd-I/Pz Rgt 15 11 PD.

3rd-Not sure if this is I/Pz Rgt 6 Pz Lehr PD or I/Pz Rgt 3 Normandy.

Arthur :milwink:

Second picture is supposed to belong to 1st SS LAH Battle Group Peiper, the steel wheels were fitted to 50 Panthers as test beds for the coming F model the picture was taken in the Ardennes.

Mark Lawson
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Mark Lawson » 11 Mar 2012 23:49

Panzer V wrote:Alan,

My apologies for misreading the question,

I believe the one rubber rim wheel is just a replacement wheel installed at the unit level, cannibalized off another Panther. Possibly 225 ran over a mine. My best guess. A strange one-off variation considering if there was one odd wheel, it would be a rear steel wheel on an all rubber rim set.

More on the steel wheels, from the net:

On Panthers, steel wheels were used only briefly in September, 1944, for a test batch, but it was found that the closely spaced steel wheels frequently broke the hollow guide teeth on the Panther tracks, and the use of steel wheels was stopped pending the design of a new double link track with a single solid center guide on alternate links (which never happened, owing to the war situation). Some leftover steel wheels were incorporated on the last station of a few late war Panthers for reasons unknown, but steel wheels would not have been in the ordinary supply line, and it's hard to see where a Panther unit in the field would have gotten any

Arthur
The Bovington Panther has at least 2 links with solid guide horns this has puzzled me for some time as to why they made such tracks the reason could well be for use with steel wheels especially as the Bovington Panther was built post war

Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 12 Mar 2012 21:48

[2nd-I/Pz Rgt 15 11 PD.

Arthur :milwink:[/quote]


Second picture is supposed to belong to 1st SS LAH Battle Group Peiper, the steel wheels were fitted to 50 Panthers as test beds for the coming F model the picture was taken in the Ardennes.[/quote]


Hello Mark,

Hope you are well. While the internet is a great resource, it has some failings, such a wrong info that just keeps rolling around.

2nd-Here is a real picture of the Stoumont 225 of I/SS Pz Rgt 1 commanded by Oberscharfuhrer Roeper. It was not a steel wheeler at all. The vehicle is badly burnt out.
1st-As you can see, the 2. Kompanie font on the turret is much different than the I/Pz Rgt 15 11 PD Panther 225 beside the river.


Arthur. :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 12 Mar 2012 21:55

Another view of what I speculate is I/Pz Rgt 15 11 PD "225".

It could be another unit, but it is definetly not LSSAH in Stoumont, where the real "225" was knocked out, ripping its barrel from the turret. I do not have the book "Duel in the Midst 1 or 2" but I expect a even more firm answer will be found there. Perhaps someone else has one of these books and can post.


Arthur :milwink:
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Mark Lawson
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Mark Lawson » 12 Mar 2012 22:29

Arthur, you have heard the saying “look before you leap” well this is one of those instances where I should have done just that, as you rightly say this particular picture is reproduced everywhere stating that it belonged to LAH and again you are quite right in saying that this Panther 225 was not the 225 knocked out on 19th December 44 in Stoumont which had the normal rubber wheels, I just happen to have both copies of “Duel in the mist” and should have looked first to see if this steel wheeled Panther was in the books and it is not.

Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 13 Mar 2012 22:59

Three more I/SS Pz Rgt 1 shots from the Ardennes I had not seen before.

1st- 234 via Panzer Archiv

2nd -221.

3rd-101 on the mantlet side.

I do not have the Duel in the Mist books, which I need to buy.

Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 13 Mar 2012 23:03

Three more I/SS Pz Rgt 1 Ardennes shots I have not seen before.

3rd-234 Stoumont.

Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 14 Mar 2012 21:35

More I/SS Pz Rgt 1 Ardennes photos from the net I had not seen yet.

1st-La Glieze.

2nd, 3rd-215 Stoumont from a french website.

I believe 2 of these ( 2nd, 3rd ) may be from the Duel in Midst 1 or 2 books. I don't own it-so I can't be sure. If they are, I do post them only for discussion sake.


Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 14 Mar 2012 21:41

More I/SS Pz Rgt 1 LSSAH in the Ardennes. Photos I had not see before.

1st, 2nd, 3rd- Panther 221.

2nd -photo Bill Auerbach.

Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 15 Mar 2012 23:32

More I/SS Pz Rgt 1 Ardennes.

1st photo-via Pz Archiv

Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 15 Mar 2012 23:38

Three more.

1st-Sch.Pz.Jg.Abt 654 Befehlspanther burning, form another angle.
2nd-Gruppe Fehrmann Panther, Germany 1945 (I believe-I may be wrong).
3rd-Pz Brigade 107 burnt out Panther, Netherlands. Operation Market Garden fighting.

Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 16 Mar 2012 20:17

Hello all,
1st-Italy 1945, so this must mean I/Pz Rgt 26, 26 Pz Div.
2nd-I/Pz Rgt 6 Pz Lehr Pz Div, 1944.
3rd-I/Pz Rgt 4 Italy Ausf D.


If any corrections needed, do post.


Arthur :milwink:
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Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 16 Mar 2012 20:22

1st-/Pz Rgt 27, 19 Pz Div. Poznan, Poland.

2nd, 3rd-I/Pz Rgt 27 19 Pz Div former Czechoslovakia.


Arthur :milwink:
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Tony M Ormandy
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Tony M Ormandy » 17 Mar 2012 04:55

In post 678 on 16 March,what makes you think that the middle photo is Pz Lehr ?.
There are no large numbers on the turret.

Tony

Panzer V
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Re: Destroyed/Captured Panther tanks

Post by Panzer V » 17 Mar 2012 13:26

Hello Tony,
Good point. The photo I posted is of terrible quality, but, several years ago I did see a copy of the same photo with better quality. On that photo I thought I could make out the outlines of the large I/Pz Rgt 6 numbering font. The Panther is also badly burnt out.

Of course, I cannot find that better photo now, and just have the terrible example. But I will continue to look. Memory does fade, and of course I may be mistaken-it may be a another unit altogether.

What I can gather from the photo:

Ausf A Panther
Western front
1944 summer weather
lack of track links on turret-though there was I/Pz Rgt 6 Panthers in Normandy that did have them.

Now that I have posted this, the real ID will come out that I am totally off in my conclusions (haha)

Arthur

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