► Photothread: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

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Larry Hayward
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Larry Hayward » 21 Jun 2013 17:06

Another Zis-5 in German use being worked on or is it posed?
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Larry Hayward » 21 Jun 2013 17:10

And another Zis-5 in German use, with modified front probably to help it through the mud.
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Larry Hayward » 21 Jun 2013 17:36

Another Zis with what looks like the same mod to the front end as above. Is that a Beute Bedford behind?
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kerryboo
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by kerryboo » 21 Jun 2013 18:22

Hello Larry,

With regard to the lorry with the modified front, I have a nagging memory that the Germans engineered some Soviet armoured vehicles to reconfigure them as lorries. I am probably way off line, but perhaps someone else has the facts?

Cheers,

Kerry.

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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by kerryboo » 21 Jun 2013 18:32

Larry, rethinking, it makes more sense that it was halftracks like the ZIS-42M that were converted to standard running gear. I think the vehicle in the background on your last photo is a Bedford, judging by the small screen, and MW of some sort.
Kerry.

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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Larry Hayward » 21 Jun 2013 23:29

Many thanks Kerryboo

I must admit though that the ZIS-42M had an arched cut out in the bottom rear of the cab, for the front of the tracks, which these vehicles don't have

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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by kerryboo » 22 Jun 2013 09:13

Hi again,

The curved section was a mudguard, extended from the rear bed, the cab side remained the same. However, the great failing in my ill thought through hypothesis was the front mudguards. On the ZIS 42 and 42M they were of the economy, flat profile type. The brush guard on the front axel was part of the modification from 42 to 42M (modified). Perhaps the modifications were extended to the ZIS 5? As said, all of this is, sadly, based purely on a fuzzy memory.

I hope the experts chip in to put me straight, I am now intrigued to know the truth!

Kerry.

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peeved
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by peeved » 22 Jun 2013 10:33

Notrack conversion of ZiS-22 maybe; c.f. http://www.motorstown.com/imgs/66293-zis-22-5.html

Markus

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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Karelia » 22 Jun 2013 10:44

Larry Hayward wrote:Zis-5 with pontoon
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/f ... ?id=302512

This photo is from Viipuri (Vyborg), then the capital of Finnish Karelia and the second largest city of Finland, after the soviets had captured it on 20th June 1944. After that the Finnish defence strengthened and the soviet offencies were blocked.

The castle behind is the castle of Viipuri, founded in 1290, when Finland was part of Sweden and the Finns were Swedish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyborg_Castle

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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Larry Hayward » 22 Jun 2013 12:21

Thanks for the comments guys.

Can anyone explain why a Zis-22 would be converted from a halftrack to a truck and then get used in such bad conditions that the tracks would have been of benefit?

Also would the sheet metal on the front of the chassis be easy enough to take off a destroyed Zis-22 or even fabricate?

Photo from Markus's link
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by peeved » 23 Jun 2013 10:08

Maybe due to the small production run of ZiS-22 (200 or so) the Germans didn't capture enough to establish a spare parts system through cannibalization when the tracked running gears needed major overhaul. The ZiS-22 track drive apparently was not quite satisfactory with a track shedding tendency http://www.o5m6.de/zis_22.html and a friction drive between the tracks and drive wheels http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1&start=30

Markus

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Stan P
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Stan P » 23 Jun 2013 21:07

Hi

Based on the information contained in the book of Nikolay Polikarpov "ZIS-5" [2004]: English summary about ZIS-22 from pages 64,65,66,67,68 this book (the pages in attachments)

In the years 1934-1935 Soviet Union worked on half-tracked vehicle based on AMO/ZIS truck and known as ZIS-Somua but works were suspended and abandoned in 1935. Removable off-road devices used in ZIS-33 and ZIS-35 did't meet the expectations of the Red Army and work on the half-tracked vehicle started again in 1938.

In 1938 the all-terrain half-tracked vehicles known as WZ and WG were developed and manufactured on basis of the ZIS-5 and GAZ-AA. Testing took place in period June 17 to August 13, 1938. First WZ production vehicles were built by Leningrad's Car Repair Plant (LARZ) in Leningrad and by The Moscow's ZIS Factory where after appropriate adaptation of design and manufacturing technology, the vehicle got the designation of the ZIS-22. First serial production WZ (for name changed to ZIS-22) were finished at the end of the 1938. In 1939 small productions was continued.

To protect the front of the vehicle from damage when driving off-road, and before burial in mud and snow on the front of vehicle fitted guard cover (mud/snowguard). ZIS-22 was rubber-metal tracks and pneumatic drive-wheels. The main feature of the vehicle was no fixed engagement between the wheels and tracks. The tracks of vehicle is scrolled only by friction forces. Was the reason for the failure of the vehicle in combat.

During the Winter War fully revealed defects of tracks drive. Frontline units used ZIS-22 sent messages with requests for rebuilt ZIS-22 on standard ZIS-5 who had more possibilities to overcome the difficult terrain than the ZIS-22 !!!. This means that Soviets soldiers themselves rebuilt in field workshop some ZIS-22 on standard truck.

...
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Stan P
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Stan P » 23 Jun 2013 21:08

...

Technical defects caused that in March 1940 manufacturing of the ZIS-22 was discontinued. Last 19 serial vehicles were handed over to the armed forces on April 10, 1940. The ZIS-22 were received by military units in Moscow Military District and Odessa Military District. The first series ZIS-22 (without of forced meshing between wheels and tracks) were in service until the beginning of the war and almost all were lost in the first months of Barbarossa.

When the production was stopped the officials of the Red Army was needed half-tacks, ZIS-22 had no alternative and on May 11, 1940 the Moscow ZIS Factory resumed work on the improvement vehicles. The Red Army was decided to eliminate the fundamental flaw track. On July 4, 1940 Council of People's Commissars was decided to build an additional 250 vehicles in a modernized version. This version is sometimes called ZIS-22M but works plants building vehicles did't introduce significant changes. Pneumatic drive-wheels replaced with rubber bandages wheels. Probably some vehicles have new tracks with forced meshing between wheels and tracks, some built in old fashion without forced meshing between wheels and tracks.

In Summer 1940 three new prototypes of modernized ZIS-22 were built with forced meshing between wheels and tracks and new powered tracks the following designations: ZIS-22-50, ZIS-22-52 and ZIS-22M. It should be noted that the name ZIS-22M is official name only prototype. The 1941 began and all works were stopped. Overall production of ZIS-22 can be estimated at about 400 vehicles approximately about 150 vehicles of the first series and 250 of the the second series, but some sources indicate that the productions of the second series was stopped when new prototypes were built and overall production of ZIS-22 can be estimated at about 200 vehicles, because in the second half of 1940 Moscow's ZIS Factory was built only a few vehicles.

From these prototypes ZIS-22-52 was adopted to arm and began to produce in the autumn of 1942 under the name ZIS-42 but that's another story.

Stan
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Stan P
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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by Stan P » 24 Jun 2013 17:51

Hi again

The photos of very rare captured ZIS-22 by German soldiers you can find in this website:

http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/su/tr ... s_22-1.htm

Stan

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Re: Zis-5 & Zis-6 trucks in use by the Axis or Russia

Post by kerryboo » 28 Jun 2013 11:17

Here is a nicely camouflaged Zis-5.
Kerry.
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