► Photothread: Umbauwagen

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SIS 5
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by SIS 5 » 01 Dec 2014 17:15

Hi ilfil,

sorry, that happens, whe You are not concentrated. But it´s really good, that You are a good-humoured man.

Here another Leyland retriever with an improvised closed cab. I hope You haven´t seen it, yet (source of the pic: http://www.reibert.info).

Regards

Bert
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Maxschnauzer
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by Maxschnauzer » 03 Dec 2014 02:17

A rather strange looking schlepper, purportedly a converted Hotchkiss beute:
Diese "Limousine" ist ein umgebauter Hotchkiss, der bei der 18.SS-Pz.Gren.Div. "Horst Wessel" als Artillerieschlepper im Einsatz war
http://www.panzer-modell.de/referenz/fo ... chkiss.jpg
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Cheers,
Max

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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 09 Dec 2014 21:49

CMP Kübel, hard top Morris-Commercial and maybe Adler Favorit pickup from exp.eBay.de N:o 390622361005, 251582427839 & 161385886359.

Markus
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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 09 Dec 2014 21:57

Chevrolet Umbau trio from exp.eBay.de N:o 221267942547, 331239129055 & 370827235482.

Markus
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Bill Murray
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by Bill Murray » 09 Dec 2014 22:49

Markus, I cannot thank you enough for the last trio of Chevrolet photos!! 1937, 1938, 1939 all in a row............

I have rather a lot of them and have never seen any of these particular photos.

Someday, there will hopefully be a member of this Forum that has the "story" about a theory that I have long had.

We have discussed earlier on the Forum that there was "series production" of certain umbau vehicles. Most notable on the Horch
chassis and also Opel, as I have commented on not too long ago. These conversions were carried out in the main by well known
German coach builders like Erdmann & Rossi for example.

Now, I am seeing more and more umbau vehicles based on the Chevrolet chassis that are so similar, even with a few variations based on year model, that I am more and more convinced that there must have been some defined organization within the German military that was dedicated to
modifying such vehicles in series, however small, to a common specification. With all due respect to the tradition of German craftsmen, these conversions do not look to my eyes as being done in a field workshop with minimal equipment. They look like something done in a professional way by a dedicated organization/factory.

Perhaps you have an answer, perhaps other members, I just hope someone jumps in here with some more information.

Bill

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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 09 Dec 2014 23:22

Hi Bill,

IMO too some Umbaus; especially Kübelwagen; look fairly well standardised. But as usual I have no answers on how the chop shops were organised. My uneducated guess is that the folks who provided Wehrmacht standard bodyworks to lorry chassis might also have been involved... What did Richter Rathenow do? :wink:

Markus

Bill Murray
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by Bill Murray » 09 Dec 2014 23:50

Hejsan Markus:

Staying up a bit late are you not??
I thought all Finns were in the Sauna by now getting ready to go "Beddy Bye" by now this time of year.
Tonight we expect a temperature of 0 degrees Celsius and Pat and I will spend maybe a half hour in our outdoor Hot Tub before going to bed.

To be more serious, I think that there was a "network" of not only German but also occupied countries vehicle/body/specialist companies that were contracted to build small series of such vehicles. Kübelwagen types probably were the most that were made, followed possibly by ambulance type vehicles.

Not to beat the subject to death, but I wish someone had/has a definitive history of this type of conversion.

Bill

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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 10 Dec 2014 07:47

Wonder if any of the bodymakers for formal production types participated; Even those were many although
During 1942 the multiplicity of chassis available - coupled with the multiplicity of manufacturers participating in their production - led the Heereswaffenamt to restrict the manufacture of personnel carriers to the following firms:

Bodies:
Ambi-Budd, Berlin;
Schmiedehandwerk, Berlin;
Buhne, Berlin;
Gaubschat, Berlin;
Nowak, Bautzen;
Gläser, Dresden;
Seegers & Sohn, Leipzig;
August Zschau, Leipzig;
Gustav Hornig, Meerane;
Dietzsch, Glauchau;
Fahrzeugbau Schumann, Werdau;
Auto-Union AG, Zwickau;
Petara & Söhne, Hehenelbe;
Gustav Winter, Zittau;
Karosseriewerke, München;
Tatra-Werke, Nesseldorf;
Linke & Hoffmann, Breslau;
Albert Kleye, Altenburg;
Assmann, Eisenach;
Friedrich Hahn; Hannover;
Kathe & Co, Halle;
Gottfried Linder, Ammerdorf:
Dreissner & Söhne, Köthen;
ADE-Werke, Wallershausen;
MAN, Nürnberg;
Minnameier, Nürnberg;
Hubertia, Küps;
N. Trutz, Coburg.
from German Military Transport of World War Two by John Milsom.

I believe Ambi-Budd was the big name in standard Kübel bodies. That could make them an unlikely candidate for Umbau cottage industry unless their mass produced bodies could easily be modified to suit substitute standard chassis.

Markus

Bill Murray
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by Bill Murray » 10 Dec 2014 13:10

Hi Markus:
I can't thank you enough for that listing. I do not have that book but I think I can download it from Scribe and I will if I can.

In my other field of interest, regarding American vehicles overseas whether military or civilian, I have built a large data file
on European and other countries coachbuilders but use those files to look for civilian stuff. I will now go back and try to
"mine" the data for military vehicles such as our umbau type cars.

Anything I find I will post here.
Bill

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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 16 Dec 2014 10:15

Graham Umbau from exp. eBay.de N:o 271491925562.

Markus
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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 16 Dec 2014 10:18

Minor Horch radio mods; Exp. eBay.de auction N:os embedded in pic names.

Markus
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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 16 Dec 2014 10:21

Opel Admiral Kübelwagen maybe; Exp. eBay.de auction N:os embedded in pic names.

Markus
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SIS 5
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by SIS 5 » 16 Dec 2014 14:44

Hi Markus,

thank You very much for posting and sharing these pics. Very interesting, above all the pic with the Graham Umbau. I think this pic was taken in Monte Carlo, Monaco.

Regards

Bert

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peeved
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by peeved » 16 Dec 2014 15:19

Thanks Bert,

Had no idea on the photo location.

Regards,
Markus

Bill Murray
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Re: Umbauwagen

Post by Bill Murray » 16 Dec 2014 17:15

Hi All:

This is one of the reasons I am so glad this Forum exists.

When I saw the photo of the WH umbau in Monaco, and I believe that is where the photo was taken, I said "No Way" as I had always
believed Monaco was an unoccupied Neutral country in WW2.

This made me Google "Monaco in WW2" and my was I surprised at my ignorance.

First occupied by Italy in 1940. Hitler was furious and demanded the Italians leave, which they did.
Monaco more or less "friended" Vichy France for a period.
Italy once again occupied Monaco in 1942.
When Mussolini was executed, Germany occupied Monaco from Sept. 1943 to Sept. 1944.

Had it not been for these two photos posted by Markus, I probably would have always thought Monaco was a Neutral and unoccupied country in WW2.

I have the Forum to thank for this new knowledge.

Bill

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