Panther 141 of Pz.Rgt. 7

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hardhitter
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016 23:01
Location: krakow

Panther 141 of Pz.Rgt. 7

Post by hardhitter » 14 Oct 2016 16:49

Have You got any informationes about history of Panther Ausf. G (?) no. 141 of Pz.Rgt. 7?

This Panther was recovered in the north of Poland in Lipno (about 90 miles in the south of Graudenz) about few weeks a go.

Image

Image
Last edited by hardhitter on 15 Oct 2016 16:15, edited 1 time in total.

hardhitter
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 23:01
Location: krakow

Re: Panther 141 of Pz.Rgt. 7

Post by hardhitter » 15 Oct 2016 16:15

Cupola's number

Image

PzV interest
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Re: Panther 141 of Pz.Rgt. 7

Post by PzV interest » 17 Oct 2016 02:33

Hi
Firstly happy to hear about the find
This will help with a unit which I find little is known about
Secondly I believe that the Panther is not from Pz.Rgt 7 which I believe ceases to exist in May 43 but from 7 PD and therefore I./Pz.Rgt 25
From my timelines to date 7 PD is the only Panzer Division that I can find that fits with the location
Below are some abridged entries from various sources
13 Jan 45; beginning of the full scale enemy offensive between the Baltic and the Carpathians, (KN)
15 Jan 45; due to the enemy pressure till 19 Jan I./Pz.Rgt 25 as part of the Division is involved in retreat battles to and then over the
Reich’s border in the southern areas of East Prussia: The Division is then involved in rearguard actions in the area to the
SW of Zichenau Ciechanow, 50 Kms NW of Warsaw and then in the area of Nasielsk as well as the town itself, (P.152 Die 7 PD)
20 Jan 45; 7 PD is unable to stop the enemy advance and is forced to retreat to the NW, (KN)
Till 25 Jan they are involved in defensive fighting to the east of Graudentz, Grudziadz and to the SE of Marienwerder, Kwidzyn, (MB I.25)
The maps on both P.149 and 153 of Die Gespenster Division also support 7 PD as the likely candidate
If you look at Google maps with Nasielsk to the east of Plonsk on the 15th and being to the east of Grudziadz on the 20th the withdrawl route for the
Division along what is now Route 10 is logical and Lipno sits right on that route
What also supports this is that there is a train line between Plonsk and Torun and then to Grudziadz
What is also supportive is that the Zustandsbericht for I./Pz.Rgt 25 shows 1 and 2 Kp are the active Kpn on 1 Jan 45 and that 1 and
4 Kp are the active Kpn on 1 Feb 45 showing that 1 Kpn remains active throughout Jan 45
Which supports the possibility 141 as an I./Pz.Rgt 25 loss

Ausf A
The cupola and the engine fan cover show that the Panther is likely an Ausf A
The fan cover comes from the port side with the hole at the front for the aerial mounting
The problem is that a large number of Ausf A’s are potentially shipped to I./Pz.Rgt 25 in Jan and April 44including some of the last
Ausf A’s assembled by MNH in July 44
The 15X numbers on the cupola could support an MNH assembled Panther though more info is needed especially if any of the Zimmerit survives

What would help to date the Panther is the Fahrgestell nummer on the plate above the drivers position but if not then certain features would help
Firstly whether the Nahverteidigungswaffe is there or not and then whether the angle bar is on top of the gun cleaning tube and whether or not the
lug is on the mantle
If the Navhe is not there then it is likely 1 of the 4 in Jan 44
If the Navhe is there but either the angle bar or the lug is missing then it is possibly 1 of the 5 in April
If all three are there and it’s an MNH Panther then it is from the July shipments

What I also find interesting is that the font is on the cupola
Though not always this usually indicates that the Panther involved has track hanging on the side and ¾ plates of the turret

Looking forward to any more photos
Cheers Neill

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