Tiger II of Schwere SS Pz. Abt. 501, # 332 .....

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 27 Apr 2002 21:46

Hi Charles !

Pretty dang nice pic from the 70's then...eh ?

Christian, didn't the Pz Abteilung lose all it's Königstigers here in the Ardenne ? I thought they left without any armor and then re-fitted with new Panzers before turning eastward for the final battles.... ?

E

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 27 Apr 2002 22:04

That isn't correct. During the Ardennes offensive, they lost 13 Tiger IIs, leaving a total of 31 Tiger IIs back, of which 18 were operationel (as per 15 January).

Christian

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 27 Apr 2002 22:07

Ok, now I'll have to go back to the books and check the history of the unit. Wasn't sure so the question was asked. Nice photo example nonetheless for the modeller's and historians alike though.......

E

Timo
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Post by Timo » 27 Apr 2002 22:18

Thanks Charles. Thats the info I was looking for.

Christian: There was no 003. The famous 003 from photos and the film is actually 008 of Abteilungs Adjutant Eduard Kalinowski. It was abandoned on 25.12.1944 near the Ferme Antoine, about a mile west of Stavelot.

As for camo patterns. Two types were seen in s.SS-Pz.Abt 501: three-tone and the so called ambush pattern (three-tone with the dots).

The vehicles from 3.Kompanie came from s.Pz.Abt 509 (Heer) and were handed over to s.SS-Pz.Abt 501 on 2.12.1944 in Sennelager.

13 Tigers were abandoned or destroyed in the Ardennes:

Stab:
008

1.Kompanie:
104
105
111
133

2.Kompanie
204
205
211
213
221
222

3.Kompanie
332
334

Of these Tigers, ambush pattern can be seen for sure on 008, 133, 222. All other photos I know show normal three-tone. Sometimes the callsign can't be seen in these photos but they are among those listed above for sure.

Later in the Bastogne area 312 was lost. This Tiger was also painted in three-tone.

On 16.01.1945 30 Tigers are reported with the Abteilung for transport to the east. The men of 1.Kompanie stayed behind in Germany. Their eight Tigers were transferred to the other companies to bring them upto strenght. Given the fact that most Tigers that were left behind showed the normal camo pattern, I'd say its most likely that just a few Tigers of the Abteilung had an ambush pattern but that almost all of them had the normal three-tone pattern. I disagree with the mentioned 50-50 percentage.

Just my 2 cents,
Timo

Timo
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Post by Timo » 27 Apr 2002 22:23

Ferdinand Porsche wrote:That isn't correct. During the Ardennes offensive, they lost 13 Tiger IIs, leaving a total of 31 Tiger IIs back, of which 18 were operationel (as per 15 January).

Christian
Reported are:

31 Tigers with the Abteilung on 15.01.1945 (RH 10/352)
30 Tigers with the Abteilung on 16.01.1945

assignment of 6 new Tigers is listed on 26.01.1945 (RH 10/350)

36 Tigers are listed with the Abteilung on 12.02.1945 (RH 10/312)

Cheers,
Timo

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 27 Apr 2002 22:55

Timo :

Thanks for clarifying even more......say since you have some nice details from Freiburg there, does it mention in your files if the Königstigers were all lost in the battles in Hungary or what actually was left of the Panzer Abteilung as it retreated to the west during the spring of 45 ?

Thankx !! 8)

E

Timo
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Post by Timo » 27 Apr 2002 23:03

The last figures I have are for 15.03.1945:
It gives 32 Tigers with the Abteilung, but only 8 are einsatzbereit (combat ready). 24 are given as in repair. Reports for this period are scarce.

Interesting additional info:
2 of the Abteilungs original 4 Bergepanthers are still listed on 15.01.1945, bot combat ready.
On 30.12.1944 the reports list 6 251/9 and 4 251/1 with the Abteilung.

Cheers,
Timo

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 27 Apr 2002 23:08

So from your reports we could possibly gather that the armored wedge of the 501st in Hungary was not that much damged/lost . This is interesting as I thought the unit was pretty much decimated in the attacks and subsquent defence.

good stuff Timo !

E

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 27 Apr 2002 23:35

Thanks for the info Timo!

I found the images, and looked them over again. You're absolutely right. I made the 204 mistake from a very grainy picture, but I found a side view picture that show three-tone camo only!

Christian

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sdkfz182
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Post by sdkfz182 » 05 Sep 2002 13:07

Hi Timo,

Is there stil a way that I could take a look on that picture from
Tiger II 332 ?

When I now open this article the picture is not vissible, only small
white box with red cross in it.

Many thanks in advance, with kind regards,

Benno

Michael Kenny
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Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Sep 2002 19:27

Just for you here it is!. .
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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sdkfz182
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Post by sdkfz182 » 06 Sep 2002 22:01

Hi Michael,

Thanks a lot, this really a great picture !

With kind regards,

Benno

Maurice C
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repost of original picture tiger 332

Post by Maurice C » 28 Nov 2002 03:45

HI,
i'm currently painting a 1.35 tamiya kingtiger which i hope to paint to the original 501st, tank 332 spec. All the pictures on the forum and the missing links forum are not accessible, could anybody post them again? Tanks for your patience.

Rick-rs
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Post by Rick-rs » 30 Nov 2002 15:47

Want to see a f**cked up Tiger?

Go to the La Gleize museum,unbelievable wat they did with Dollinger's 213,original in hinterhalt(ambush)scheme,the repainted it in a 3 tone scheme with not one color right,you should think that somebody should get it right by now,if only out of respect,and because the whole Ardennen region eats of tourist who come there for the Bulge history in the first place.

Just my 2 cents and change,Rick

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 30 Nov 2002 19:42

What about the Jagdtiger in England and the US? I see those paint schemes as a crime!

Christian

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