Hi Charles !
Pretty dang nice pic from the 70's then...eh ?
Christian, didn't the Pz Abteilung lose all it's Königstigers here in the Ardenne ? I thought they left without any armor and then re-fitted with new Panzers before turning eastward for the final battles.... ?
E
Tiger II of Schwere SS Pz. Abt. 501, # 332 .....
-
Christian Ankerstjerne
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 14051
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 15:07
- Location: Denmark
- Contact:
Thanks Charles. Thats the info I was looking for.
Christian: There was no 003. The famous 003 from photos and the film is actually 008 of Abteilungs Adjutant Eduard Kalinowski. It was abandoned on 25.12.1944 near the Ferme Antoine, about a mile west of Stavelot.
As for camo patterns. Two types were seen in s.SS-Pz.Abt 501: three-tone and the so called ambush pattern (three-tone with the dots).
The vehicles from 3.Kompanie came from s.Pz.Abt 509 (Heer) and were handed over to s.SS-Pz.Abt 501 on 2.12.1944 in Sennelager.
13 Tigers were abandoned or destroyed in the Ardennes:
Stab:
008
1.Kompanie:
104
105
111
133
2.Kompanie
204
205
211
213
221
222
3.Kompanie
332
334
Of these Tigers, ambush pattern can be seen for sure on 008, 133, 222. All other photos I know show normal three-tone. Sometimes the callsign can't be seen in these photos but they are among those listed above for sure.
Later in the Bastogne area 312 was lost. This Tiger was also painted in three-tone.
On 16.01.1945 30 Tigers are reported with the Abteilung for transport to the east. The men of 1.Kompanie stayed behind in Germany. Their eight Tigers were transferred to the other companies to bring them upto strenght. Given the fact that most Tigers that were left behind showed the normal camo pattern, I'd say its most likely that just a few Tigers of the Abteilung had an ambush pattern but that almost all of them had the normal three-tone pattern. I disagree with the mentioned 50-50 percentage.
Just my 2 cents,
Timo
Christian: There was no 003. The famous 003 from photos and the film is actually 008 of Abteilungs Adjutant Eduard Kalinowski. It was abandoned on 25.12.1944 near the Ferme Antoine, about a mile west of Stavelot.
As for camo patterns. Two types were seen in s.SS-Pz.Abt 501: three-tone and the so called ambush pattern (three-tone with the dots).
The vehicles from 3.Kompanie came from s.Pz.Abt 509 (Heer) and were handed over to s.SS-Pz.Abt 501 on 2.12.1944 in Sennelager.
13 Tigers were abandoned or destroyed in the Ardennes:
Stab:
008
1.Kompanie:
104
105
111
133
2.Kompanie
204
205
211
213
221
222
3.Kompanie
332
334
Of these Tigers, ambush pattern can be seen for sure on 008, 133, 222. All other photos I know show normal three-tone. Sometimes the callsign can't be seen in these photos but they are among those listed above for sure.
Later in the Bastogne area 312 was lost. This Tiger was also painted in three-tone.
On 16.01.1945 30 Tigers are reported with the Abteilung for transport to the east. The men of 1.Kompanie stayed behind in Germany. Their eight Tigers were transferred to the other companies to bring them upto strenght. Given the fact that most Tigers that were left behind showed the normal camo pattern, I'd say its most likely that just a few Tigers of the Abteilung had an ambush pattern but that almost all of them had the normal three-tone pattern. I disagree with the mentioned 50-50 percentage.
Just my 2 cents,
Timo
Reported are:Ferdinand Porsche wrote:That isn't correct. During the Ardennes offensive, they lost 13 Tiger IIs, leaving a total of 31 Tiger IIs back, of which 18 were operationel (as per 15 January).
Christian
31 Tigers with the Abteilung on 15.01.1945 (RH 10/352)
30 Tigers with the Abteilung on 16.01.1945
assignment of 6 new Tigers is listed on 26.01.1945 (RH 10/350)
36 Tigers are listed with the Abteilung on 12.02.1945 (RH 10/312)
Cheers,
Timo
Timo :
Thanks for clarifying even more......say since you have some nice details from Freiburg there, does it mention in your files if the Königstigers were all lost in the battles in Hungary or what actually was left of the Panzer Abteilung as it retreated to the west during the spring of 45 ?
Thankx !! 8)
E
Thanks for clarifying even more......say since you have some nice details from Freiburg there, does it mention in your files if the Königstigers were all lost in the battles in Hungary or what actually was left of the Panzer Abteilung as it retreated to the west during the spring of 45 ?
Thankx !! 8)
E
The last figures I have are for 15.03.1945:
It gives 32 Tigers with the Abteilung, but only 8 are einsatzbereit (combat ready). 24 are given as in repair. Reports for this period are scarce.
Interesting additional info:
2 of the Abteilungs original 4 Bergepanthers are still listed on 15.01.1945, bot combat ready.
On 30.12.1944 the reports list 6 251/9 and 4 251/1 with the Abteilung.
Cheers,
Timo
It gives 32 Tigers with the Abteilung, but only 8 are einsatzbereit (combat ready). 24 are given as in repair. Reports for this period are scarce.
Interesting additional info:
2 of the Abteilungs original 4 Bergepanthers are still listed on 15.01.1945, bot combat ready.
On 30.12.1944 the reports list 6 251/9 and 4 251/1 with the Abteilung.
Cheers,
Timo
-
Christian Ankerstjerne
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 14051
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 15:07
- Location: Denmark
- Contact:
-
Michael Kenny
- Member
- Posts: 8269
- Joined: 07 May 2002, 20:40
- Location: Teesside
repost of original picture tiger 332
HI,
i'm currently painting a 1.35 tamiya kingtiger which i hope to paint to the original 501st, tank 332 spec. All the pictures on the forum and the missing links forum are not accessible, could anybody post them again? Tanks for your patience.
i'm currently painting a 1.35 tamiya kingtiger which i hope to paint to the original 501st, tank 332 spec. All the pictures on the forum and the missing links forum are not accessible, could anybody post them again? Tanks for your patience.
Want to see a f**cked up Tiger?
Go to the La Gleize museum,unbelievable wat they did with Dollinger's 213,original in hinterhalt(ambush)scheme,the repainted it in a 3 tone scheme with not one color right,you should think that somebody should get it right by now,if only out of respect,and because the whole Ardennen region eats of tourist who come there for the Bulge history in the first place.
Just my 2 cents and change,Rick
Go to the La Gleize museum,unbelievable wat they did with Dollinger's 213,original in hinterhalt(ambush)scheme,the repainted it in a 3 tone scheme with not one color right,you should think that somebody should get it right by now,if only out of respect,and because the whole Ardennen region eats of tourist who come there for the Bulge history in the first place.
Just my 2 cents and change,Rick
-
Christian Ankerstjerne
- Forum Staff
- Posts: 14051
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 15:07
- Location: Denmark
- Contact: